Entertainment, political correctness and cancel culture

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

That's not a Nazi symbol... that is the Circle Game. If someone looks at your circle you get to punch them.

If you have a teenage child, ask them about it.

img][/img

The alleged White Power symbol is above the waist with the fingers pointing up. It looks like this.

https://compote.slate.com/images/5e297143-f1a9-4f95-ad26-2349eada8bf0.jpg

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

I think this search for hidden meaning in how people hold their fingers is silly. But, can anyone explain it to me?

We all know who Richard Spencer is. Any finger signs he may or may not makes doesn't change anything. Someone explain to me how this is anything more important than a silly joke.

There are lots of things that are bad about White Supremacy. Finger games is not one of them.

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@maxdancona,

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@JGoldman10,

JGoldman10 wrote:

Hi. I know political correctness is a BIG issue now and I think it's bad enough we have it but now cancel culture is becoming a big thing.

"Cancel culture" has always been a thing. Society has been canceling those who didn't toe the line since before Salem was burning witches. My father used to tell me how people who put their wash out on Sundays would be shunned by the community in the very small town where he grew up. As long as the cancelled were minorities and undesirables, this was an accepted part of society. The reason this is coming up now is that social media and the Internet has democratized the process. Now you can be a respected columnist or actor or author and still be held to account for comments that people would have held their noses for and let pass a few years ago. Social status and money are no longer the shield they once were, the privileged class is vulnerable and so now "respectable" people are complaining. Our former President is a good example. He was complaining about political correctness and cancel culture with one breath last week while encouraging his supporters to cancel his political opponents with the next. Entitlement is just not what is once was.

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@longjon,

longjon wrote:

You inferred that Roger Stone is a white supremacist

No, he implied it.

That tells us everything we need to know about your level of education.

Isn’t there some early learning fascist website where you can continue your losing battle with the English language?

Leave the grown up discussion to the grown ups.

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@longjon,

Quote:

You inferred that Roger Stone is a white supremacist

No. The picture merely confirms that he associated with white power types and joined them in displaying the gesture. The discussion isn't about who is or isn't into white power, only whether the symbol is recognized and used to symbolically represent white power.

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In the 1950's this guy called Joseph McCarthy declared that the "highest" level of government were infiltrated by boogie men. You could tell the boggie men from other people because of their secret words and associations and symbols.

This process of hunting out boogie men meant searching for all the little clues that might suggest that you are in fact a boggie man. This process led to real harm; people lost jobs and reputations and it led to suicides as being labled a boogie man could damage your life in real ways.

It makes me uncomforatable that now Hightor and Izzy are searching for boogie men using little clues on how people hold their fingers. This is the 21st century version of what happened with Joseph McCarthy in the 1950s.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

I think this search for hidden meaning in how people hold their fingers is silly. But, can anyone explain it to me?

I doubt it. You've decided that it's a 'search for hidden meaning in how people hold their fingers' and I doubt anything anyone says will convince you otherwise.

Quote:

It makes me uncomforatable that now Hightor and Izzy are searching for boogie men using little clues on how people hold their fingers.

FFS, max.

Once again you're just imposing your own interpretation on something I've posted. The gesture is used around the world to represent many different ideas. I use the gesture myself when someone does a good job or shows that they understand instructions.

longjon wrote:

Only mentally disturbed radical leftists think this hand signal exists.

In response to this response I posted an article from the Independent (UK) that describes one of the uses that people have found for this symbol. I'm decidedly not digging around to see who may have been caught making the gesture and imputing Nazi affiliation. As I said, I use the gesture myself. As "OK" it's part of our culture. And someone could hold his fingers that way completely unconsciously and not be suggesting any meaning at all.

Quote:

This is the 21st century version of what happened with Joseph McCarthy in the 1950s.

It really isn't. No one will be arrested for making this gesture, no one will be persecuted, no one's life will be ruined, no blacklist will ensue. The people sitting with Roger Stone belong to the Proud Boys. The fact that they're all sitting down and posing doesn't look like they're playing the "circle game". They're not indicating "OK". They are making a statement of solidarity with the goals of their organization. Do you know who Brenton Tarrant is? He is not playing the "circle game", he's making a gesture of defiance.

Quote:

The "OK" hand gesture, commonly seen as a way of indicating that all is well, has now been classified as something else: a symbol of hate.

On Thursday, the Anti-Defamation League, a Jewish civil rights organization, added 36 symbols to its "Hate on Display" database including the index finger-to-thumb sign that in some corners of the Internet has become associated with white supremacy and the far right.

Oren Segal, director of the ADL's Center on Extremism, told NPR that for years on fringe online message boards such as 4chan and 8chan, the "OK" sign has been deployed in memes and other images promoting hate. Given the number of white supremacists who have adopted it, he said it can now carry a nefarious message.

"Context is always key," Segal said. "More people than not will use the OK symbol as just 'OK.' But in those cases where there's more underlining meaning, I think it's important for people to understand that it could be used, and is being used, for hate as well."

According to the website Know Your Meme, as a prank, 4chan users in 2017 launched a campaign to flood social media with posts linking the "OK" hand gesture to the white power movement. Commenters on the message board appropriated images of people posing in the White House and other locations making the hand symbol as proof that it was catching on.

Segal said that while many of those images were misconstrued by users on the online message boards, the number of people espousing hate while using the gesture has grown so widespread that it can no longer be considered a prank.

Segal pointed to the suspected white supremacist in Christchurch, New Zealand, accused of killing 51 worshippers at two mosques in March, who flashed the "OK" hand gesture during an initial court appearance.

"Over the past couple years, we've seen that the hoax was essentially successful in being applied by actual white supremacists," Segal said.

"In many ways, they took what was a trolling effort and added it to their list of symbols," he added.

(...)

npr

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@hightor,

You really don’t have to deal with his histrionics.

I remember a documentary about racism amongst prison officers with an invited audience of interested parties including prison officers.

One issue that was brought up was far right insignia being worn by prison officers.

The response from one officer was to ask how would they feel if instead of a BNP badge it was a badge commemorating the 1st Gulf War.

When most seemed to confer that would be acceptable, the prison officers all responded that it was the same badge.

There is always a back up excuse for these sort of people, they always have to be able to claim it was something else. They don’t have the courage of their convictions.

As for vilifying the individual in question, I’ve said I know nothing about him or what his intentions were. I did say I found it hard to believe someone could lose their job over something like that if that’s all it was.

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And I'll add that I believe the Jeopardy guy made the gesture in a totally innocent way, especially since he's not obviously displaying it as a symbol. The public response was ill-considered, the opprobrium misguided.

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@Rebelofnj,

I was just using Bravo as an example.

Political correctness has impacted entertainment in general to an extent for a while now.

Isn't cancel culture starting to impact not just cartoons but entertainment in general too?

1 Reply

@hightor,

Quote:

It really isn't. No one will be arrested for making this gesture, no one will be persecuted, no one's life will be ruined, no blacklist will ensue

This isn't true. People are losing their jobs. People are having their life ruined.

There are a growing number of stories from a school administrator who said "all lives matter" out of context (and immediately followed it up with support for racial justice). She was fired. James Damore was fired for expressing an opinion about gender.

There is an active effort to root out people who have troublesome political beliefs and to get them fired.

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@maxdancona,

Let me ask this question directly Hightor.

Do you believe that someone should lose their job for holding a problematic political belief?

An example of this is someone who believes that transgender women should be excluded from woman's sports (this is an issue held by many reasonable people who otherwise have politically correct beliefs).

Maybe you disagree with their position.... but do you at least accept that someone shouldn't be fired for having a belief that you don't like?

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Who who is behind all this political correctness and cancel culture? Is it the snowflakes, and if so, who's giving them so much power and why do they have so much power?

Why do we have so many snowflakes in this generation anyway?

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@JGoldman10,

In a positive way, comedians can’t go for cheap laughs. They’ve got to be really funny.

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@JGoldman10,

It is an attempt to create a political monoculture where everyone thinks alike. Any difference of opinion turns into an attack.

In the US we haven't created a political monoculture. Instead everyone is lining up into extreme left and extreme right. Liberal absolutism feeds conservative extremism.

We need more people with the ability to question the extremism on both sides.

(Yes I said "both sides" and I meant it... get over it.)

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@JGoldman10,

Can you specify who are these Snowflakes you speak of?

Because it seems people across the political spectrum and different age/socioeconomic/ gender/ race groups have all expressed displeasure on elements found in older (and current) entertainment.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

Do you believe that someone should lose their job for holding a problematic political belief?

That's too broad, as there are situations where a militant Nazi , al-Qaeda supporter, or Maoist might not be suitable for a particular position, but as long as you leave provision for individual cases, of course I reject the concept. You know that I'm a liberal, not a 'progressive', don't you?

Quote:

...but do you at least accept that someone shouldn't be fired for having a belief that you don't like?

Certainly. Someone's employer might feel differently, however. I think part of the issue is that, under normal circumstances in most jobs, most people's political and religious beliefs aren't loudly and proudly proclaimed and displayed. The idea of picking someone out and trying to find out his position on a controversial topic so that he can be 'outed' and harassed is as disturbing to me as it is to you.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

People are losing their jobs. People are having their life ruined.

Neither our society nor our democracy are perfect and when fractious issues arise there are, unfortunately, going to be victims of various degrees of innocence or blamelessness. Yes, the 'all lives matter' incidents can be very troubling but that's what happens when a deadly serious issue is turned into a three word slogan that really needs to be explained. I think it would have been better to proclaim that "Poor People's Lives Don't Matter", because that's the reality that we see around us, and that's what we need to change.

Quote:

There is an active effort to root out people who have troublesome political beliefs and to get them fired.

Shameful.

But that has nothing to do with whether or not the Proud Boys use a hand gesture as an expression of group solidarity, which was the subject of my response to longjon's erroneous contention that a white power connection didn't exist.

1 Reply

@hightor,

1. I gave you a specific example, You could start there.

2. The problem is where someone ezpresses an opinion on Facebook or a forum, and then it gets to the angry liberal mob who them takes it to their employer to get them fired.

It is one thing to censor yourself at work. It is a other thing when expressing a political opinion outside of work can outrage the online mob and get you fired.

My brother works in a leadership role in academia. He knows full well he has to be careful what he says... even if something he says that is misinterpreted to a position he doesn't actually hold can cause problems in his career.

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