12
   

Can I save this marriage?

 
 
neptuneblue
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2021 11:31 pm
@raisinbranman,
You can't change any body but yourself and you refuse to do so.

I didn't ask for your wife to buy a half, I said sell her your half. Don't twist things to your dimension.

Again with your mom. Please grow up. It's tiresome having to deal with both of you at once.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2021 08:36 am
@jespah,
jespah wrote:

Good lord, your wife is 100% right and I am surprised she's lasted this long.

What can you do when your mother is mean? Stand up to her. Here's your script.


AMEN!

I only read through the first half dozen items your mother had said - and to be honest I could not read through the rest. Yes your mother treats people terribly. Most loving caring mothers do not insult others.

I think you are not hurt from this and cannot comfort your wife because you have never been shown a true caring and loving parent. Most husbands if they saw their wife in so much emotional pain and crying would run over to his wife and hug her and console her with kind words - reaffirming how sorry they are that she is hurt this way. You seem incapable of having empathy for her feelings - you have never been taught this. It seems normal to you be spoken to in a hurtful way - NORMAL mothers do NOT do this!

Normal people do not call others retarded for anything! Forget about something dumb like not wanting to taste a certain food item. Threatening to kill someone? Again normal people do not do that even if you do not mean it. One does not talk like that - it is mean and cruel and wrong.

Your wife has already told you what she wants from you and have not done it. Your own words: "She (my wife) has been telling me that I need to set boundaries with my mom and that I need to defend her more."

Your response is lame - ". But I've said things to my mom. She told my wife that she calls everyone retarted but still my wife can't seem to get over it.."

I really wonder what you said to your mom - I doubt you said anything direct like mom, you need to stop saying hurtful and insulting things to my wife. I love her and if you continue we and me will not come over and visit." that is saying something to your mom and setting boundaries - and then you follow through - if you are over there and she says anything hurtful and say I will not have you speak to my wife that way - and then turn tail and leave.

This is not for your wife to get over --- no one should be treated that way and spoken to that way.

Quite honestly I think you need to get counseling so you can learn to have empathy for others.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2021 08:49 am
@raisinbranman,
raisinbranman wrote:

We were raised to not leave the family. We all stay together. If anyone marries into our family, they accept that we do everything together.

....Memorial Day, or just can't make it to a family event they (my mom mostly) make us feel guilty. They (my mom and the cousin I mentioned above) kept saying my wife is taking me away from the family and they hated her until she integrated with us. But I can understand them wanting to get to know the woman I'm with.


So what? You are an adult. You know I am a mom of two young adult women. 22 and 18. I raised them and taught them many things. I want what is BEST for THEM! Not me. Yes, I would love them once they become 100% independent to live near me - I love them and love having them around. However, if they find that moving thousands of miles away from me is the best situation for them - due to a spouse, a job or any other reason, I would be happy for them and wish them well! I raised them to be productive, caring, independent adults - I am not going to selfishly make them feel guilty to not live their full lives for me.

Sorry but this irritates the snot outta me. Your mother is uncaring and selfish. And a mom should be the opposite and you are (for lack of a better term) stupid. You have a caring wife that you are just going to throw away because "We were raised to not leave the family."

Go ahead - enjoy being at home with mommy because that is where your future lies. And quite honestly is probably the best outcome for your wife. Let her go - she will in the long run be much happier without an unsupporting husband - I honestly feel really bad for her.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2021 08:55 am
@raisinbranman,
raisinbranman wrote:

I understand what you're saying but it's a lot easier said than done. My wife wants me to take a temporary break from my mom so we can try to fix this without her interference.

But there's so many holidays coming up and her birthday is in June and I know she's going to want to spend them with us.


Your wife is correct and you are wrong. You will not be able to fix this with them (and especially your mom) involved.

Who cares if there are holidays - who cares if (I am assuming you mean your mom when you say she for the birthday in June ) your mom or family want you there - your wife is who you committed to "for death do you part" in your marriage vows.

It is easy - just go with your wife and stop all contact with your family until you have gone through enough therapy to be able to strongly and firmly handle them. That's it. Ignore phone calls and any other contact from them. Send flowers to your mom for her birthday - that is what normal people do.
raisinbranman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2021 09:09 am
@neptuneblue,
I'm not twisting things to my dimension. Just trying to understand how me selling her my half wouldn't involve her buying it
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2021 09:39 am
@Linkat,
Ug - I am so sorry - I just realized I am a month behind - ignore my comments!
0 Replies
 
raisinbranman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2021 09:57 am
@Linkat,
Well now I am back at my mom's bc my wife has said she's had enough and that I'm just not getting it.

Yes you're a month behind but this is all still such a mess
0 Replies
 
raisinbranman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2021 09:59 am
@Linkat,
I do have empathy. I feel it inside but I don't know how to express it. Especially when my wife is crying and telling me how much I've hurt her. It's like trying to hug a cactus. I just feel like she hates me and I don't know how how to comfort that
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2021 10:20 am
@raisinbranman,
Sorry for all this - not sure if you tried a support group - just telling you this because I know of someone who had gone through this and it took her until very late in age to realize she had a narcissist mom. You might consider joining a narcissist support group. I am serious...that way you are working with people that have experienced the same thing you have.

I think your wife has been hurt so badly she does not trust you. I think you do not know how to show you care for your wife in a way that really shows it. That is me just looking from the outside.

You have spent your life with this family - it is not going to be solved over night. Maybe you two do need to take a break. Your wife to lick her wounds and feel good about herself again. You, to work through this. You need to learn to care for yourself as well before you are in a position to care for someone else.

Maybe tell her you do really care for her - but you need to work through this, to learn how to show you care. You honestly do not know how to show her how much you care - you are working through and trying to learn.

I mean really you grew up in a home and spent 30+ years with a family and a mom that did not show love and caring...it is going to take a bit to learn how you show love and caring and thoughtfulness.
raisinbranman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2021 10:34 am
@Linkat,
My wife thinks my mom is a narcissist too. She's been telling me this since I met her. She grew up with a narcissistic mother herself so she said she saw the similarities. It's just hard to wrap my brain around that bc my mom has been so loving to me growing up. Yes, she guilt trips me a lot and makes me feel bad when I don't do things she wants but I know it's just bc she loves me and cares about me so much. She's never talked to me the way she talks to my wife. I'm not saying that makes it ok. Her behavior hasn't been consistent to me though. (I'm assuming narcissists are pretty consistent in being s.hitty) I was always favored over my brother (I hated it) but I know she can be brash with others. Going out to dinner with her can be excruciating bc she talks down to the help a lot and overall can come off brash and antagonistic. Our family even considered having an intervention for her bc she drinks all the time and we attributed her behavior to alcohol. I don't remember what happened but ultimately, the intervention never happened.

My wife has told me the same thing, that I need to focus on myself and start learning who I am and to become more self aware bc I seem to not have an identity independent from my family. She said our relationship is too enmeshed but this is honestly all I know. This is the way I was raised and I haven't had any real contact from people outside my family besides my wife. One of the reasons my wife has a big problem with my family, besides my mom's verbal abuse, is that she feels forced to spend time with them rather than it coming organically. She said it would be different if one well my mom didn't treat her this way, and also my cousin has said some mean things about my wife as well, and two, if they would be more understanding when we wanted to do things on our own. But they're not. We're always expected to do everything with my family and anyone that marries into the family has to accept that. I personally don't agree with it but over the years, it's been easier to just go along with it bc I didn't have anyone. Now that I'm with my wife, it was hard to see if she genuinely had a point or if my family was right and she was just trying to take me away from them. It's very confusing.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2021 11:04 am
@raisinbranman,
I like your wife.

Quote:
This is the way I was raised and I haven't had any real contact from people outside my family besides my wife.

Quote:
Now that I'm with my wife, it was hard to see if she genuinely had a point or if my family was right and she was just trying to take me away from them. It's very confusing.


Why you need to focus on yourself - you have answered your own questions- all of this is in what you say yourself, and you cannot even recognize it.

I suggest joining one of these support groups - I am far from an expert on the subject and I am just going by what you post here; I don't know your mother or your family - just reading through what you wrote in the beginning that lists things your mom has said reeks of this. A support group might help you determine if this is the case - it might help you recognize yourself in the face of the other members and even more importantly if this is the case of your mom, you will get to speak with people that have experienced what you have. You use facebook - there are a few on there.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2021 01:00 pm
Can you try for a moment to see it from your wife's point of view? What if her family verbally abused you, called you retarded, threatened to kill you if you hurt her, etc.? Your whole family seems to have problems and because you grew up with it, you think it's normal. But your wife is right. And she may be disgusted with you because she doesn't see you as a man, but a boy. You needed to man up in front of your mom, cousin, whomever, and state very clearly that they were not going to talk to her that way.

And I can't believe you let her come along to the condo to inspect it before you signed the documents. That is just emasculating. She wants to keep everyone under her thumb and your wife saw it for what it was.

I think you're in a terrible spot. I really hope you gain an understanding of your family dynamics and what it has done to both you and your wife. You sound like a genuinely nice guy who does love his wife - you just don't see what the rest of us do. That's the problem in a nutshell.
raisinbranman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2021 06:38 pm
Well my wife texted me asking me to come back home. But I told her I can't do this back and forth stuff. One day she wants me, one day she doesn't. I don't feel like I have a home anymore. I'm at my parents house now but I don't even feel comfortable HERE anymore. I told her I'm gonna stay here to think for awhile bc I need a clear space to think. But she doesn't respect my wishes and thinks I'm using this as an opportunity to fall back into the enmeshment with my mom. I'm not. I just need to clear my head. I realize we're not healthy for each other.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2021 11:19 pm
@Mame,
I don't know about you Mame, but I want to divorce this guy......right now.
raisinbranman
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2021 07:52 am
@glitterbag,
If we divorce will she be entitled to half my dad's business? It's in my name and he's worried now. The last thing I need is my father shutting me out again. He told me a story about he didn't talk to me for 6 months when I was 16. I didn't even realize he wasn't talking to me. It was strange. How could I not remember this?
jespah
 
  2  
Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2021 08:25 am
@raisinbranman,
Now you're asking for legal advice. Which is specifically against our Terms of Service.

YOU. NEED. A. LAWYER.
raisinbranman
 
  0  
Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2021 08:29 am
@jespah,
Oh. Sorry
0 Replies
 
raisinbranman
 
  0  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2021 09:31 am
@Linkat,
Ok I know you guys are frustrated with me, rightfully so but I'm back bc I just don't know what to do. My wife thinks that I should maintain a temporary no contact with my mom while we work on things but I think talking to her twice a month for like 10-15 is ok. She's worried it will.set me back and I'll get caught back up with the enmeshment. She thinks that down the road if my mom keeps it up with her toxic behavior I won't be able to cut her off completely.

I just spoke to my therapist about all of this and told him my wife thinks I should cut my mom off completely. He said that's not the answer bc I only get one mother and that he thinks my wife is controlling.

My wife is upset with me again bc she said she never said to cut my mom off completely but just to cut off temporary no contact to gain some distance and clarity. I don't know maybe I worded it wrong with my therapist and he took it the wrong way but now she's mad at me again and I don't know what to do.

I feel like my wife wants me to hate my mom though and I just can't
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2021 01:46 pm
@raisinbranman,
I think your wife just wants you to see your mother in a realistic light, such as what everyone here has been saying about her.

And I don't think your therapist has all the answers or even all the information. Have your shown your therapist the list of complaints your wife had (that you posted here). That might shed a new light on things for him.

Why can't you not speak to your parents for a limited, agreed-upon time? That's really not much to ask.
raisinbranman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2021 08:22 pm
@Mame,
I've read him about the first ten things on the list bc listing all of them I thought might take the whole session. He said he doesn't know her and he can't diagnose her but if she's not a full blown narcissist then she's definitely on her way. But he also said cutting people off isn't how you deal with relationships.

I understand the temporary no contact but that kinda got interrupted when my wife asked me to go there for a few months while she got her finances together and found a place of her own. Then she asked me to come back home. So I basically set a boundary with my mom, went temporary no contact then went there that night like my wife asked and I feel like that undid the no contact. So how do I go BACK to a temp no contact?

I also don't want to feel like in the future I'd need to get permission from my wife for my parents to come over. Especially if we have kids
 

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