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Attack in London Today

 
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 12:31 pm
C'ptn Pugwash

now there is a name to conjour with (or do something with anyway)

heard of Master Bates, Seaman Staines but never Roger the Cabin Boy before


(that was just so funny that the bbc persisted with it for years, thinking ........well not sure if they were thinking)

any more Pugwashian names you recall McTag?
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 11:29 pm
No, 'fraid not, Steve. I don't read the classics much.
0 Replies
 
the prince
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2005 01:32 am
Roger the cabin boy - now we are talking....
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2005 08:54 am
Quote:
Comment--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Britain now faces its own blowback

Intelligence interests may thwart the July bombings investigation


Michael Meacher
Saturday September 10, 2005

Guardian

The videotape of the suicide bomber Mohammad Sidique Khan has switched the focus of the London bombings away from the establishment view of brainwashed, murderous individuals and highlighted a starker political reality. While there can be no justification for horrific killings of this kind, they need to be understood against the ferment of the last decade radicalising Muslim youth of Pakistani origin living in Europe.
During the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan in the 1980s, the US funded large numbers of jihadists through Pakistan's secret intelligence service, the ISI. Later the US wanted to raise another jihadi corps, again using proxies, to help Bosnian Muslims fight to weaken the Serb government's hold on Yugoslavia. Those they turned to included Pakistanis in Britain.

According to a recent report by the Delhi-based Observer Research Foundation, a contingent was also sent by the Pakistani government, then led by Benazir Bhutto, at the request of the Clinton administration. This contingent was formed from the Harkat-ul- Ansar (HUA) terrorist group and trained by the ISI. The report estimates that about 200 Pakistani Muslims living in the UK went to Pakistan, trained in HUA camps and joined the HUA's contingent in Bosnia. Most significantly, this was "with the full knowledge and complicity of the British and American intelligence agencies".

As the 2002 Dutch government report on Bosnia makes clear, the US provided a green light to groups on the state department list of terrorist organisations, including the Lebanese-based Hizbullah, to operate in Bosnia - an episode that calls into question the credibility of the subsequent "war on terror".

For nearly a decade the US helped Islamist insurgents linked to Chechnya, Iran and Saudi Arabia destabilise the former Yugoslavia. The insurgents were also allowed to move further east to Kosovo. By the end of the fighting in Bosnia there were tens of thousands of Islamist insurgents in Bosnia, Croatia and Kosovo; many then moved west to Austria, Germany and Switzerland.

Less well known is evidence of the British government's relationship with a wider Islamist terrorist network. During an interview on Fox TV this summer, the former US federal prosecutor John Loftus reported that British intelligence had used the al-Muhajiroun group in London to recruit Islamist militants with British passports for the war against the Serbs in Kosovo. Since July Scotland Yard has been interested in an alleged member of al-Muhajiroun, Haroon Rashid Aswat, who some sources have suggested could have been behind the London bombings.

According to Loftus, Aswat was detained in Pakistan after leaving Britain, but was released after 24 hours. He was subsequently returned to Britain from Zambia, but has been detained solely for extradition to the US, not for questioning about the London bombings. Loftus claimed that Aswat is a British-backed double agent, pursued by the police but protected by MI6.

One British Muslim of Pakistani origin radicalised by the civil war in Yugoslavia was LSE-educated Omar Saeed Sheikh. He is now in jail in Pakistan under sentence of death for the killing of the US journalist Daniel Pearl in 2002 - although many (including Pearl's widow and the US authorities) doubt that he committed the murder. However, reports from Pakistan suggest that Sheikh continues to be active from jail, keeping in touch with friends and followers in Britain.

Sheikh was recruited as a student by Jaish-e-Muhammad (Army of Muhammad), which operates a network in Britain. It has actively recruited Britons from universities and colleges since the early 1990s, and has boasted of its numerous British Muslim volunteers. Investigations in Pakistan have suggested that on his visits there Shehzad Tanweer, one of the London suicide bombers, contacted members of two outlawed local groups and trained at two camps in Karachi and near Lahore. Indeed the network of groups now being uncovered in Pakistan may point to senior al-Qaida operatives having played a part in selecting members of the bombers' cell. The Observer Research Foundation has argued that there are even "grounds to suspect that the [London] blasts were orchestrated by Omar Sheikh from his jail in Pakistan".

Why then is Omar Sheikh not being dealt with when he is already under sentence of death? Astonishingly his appeal to a higher court against the sentence was adjourned in July for the 32nd time and has since been adjourned indefinitely. This is all the more remarkable when this is the same Omar Sheikh who, at the behest of General Mahmood Ahmed, head of the ISI, wired $100,000 to Mohammed Atta, the leading 9/11 hijacker, before the New York attacks, as confirmed by Dennis Lormel, director of FBI's financial crimes unit.

Yet neither Ahmed nor Omar appears to have been sought for questioning by the US about 9/11. Indeed, the official 9/11 Commission Report of July 2004 sought to downplay the role of Pakistan with the comment: "To date, the US government has not been able to determine the origin of the money used for the 9/11 attacks. Ultimately the question is of little practical significance" - a statement of breathtaking disingenuousness.

All this highlights the resistance to getting at the truth about the 9/11 attacks and to an effective crackdown on the forces fomenting terrorist bombings in the west, including Britain. The extraordinary US forbearance towards Omar Sheikh, its restraint towards the father of Pakistan's atomic bomb, Dr AQ Khan, selling nuclear secrets to Iran, Libya and North Korea, the huge US military assistance to Pakistan and the US decision last year to designate Pakistan as a major non-Nato ally in south Asia all betoken a deeper strategic set of goals as the real priority in its relationship with Pakistan. These might be surmised as Pakistan providing sizeable military contingents for Iraq to replace US troops, or Pakistani troops replacing Nato forces in Afghanistan. Or it could involve the use of Pakistani military bases for US intervention in Iran, or strengthening Pakistan as a base in relation to India and China.

Whether the hunt for those behind the London bombers can prevail against these powerful political forces remains to be seen. Indeed it may depend on whether Scotland Yard, in its attempts to uncover the truth, can prevail over MI6, which is trying to cover its tracks and in practice has every opportunity to operate beyond the law under the cover of national security.

· Michael Meacher is the Labour MP for Oldham West and Royton; he was environment minister from 1997 to 2003
Source
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2005 10:26 am
The head of UK security service MI5 has warned that civil liberties might need to be "eroded" in order to protect the British people from terrorism after the "shock" of the London bombings.
Dame Eliza Manningham-Buller, MI5's director general, made her remarks in a speech delivered Setember 1 at The Hague on the 60th anniversary of the Dutch security service and recently posted on the MI5 website.
Manningham-Buller's words echo those of British Home Secretary Charles Clarke speaking earlier this week to his European counterparts. Ex-MI5 agent David Shayler is being quoted in the press as disagreeing that civil liberties should be put on the back burner and arguing that liberties lost would make terrorists into "martyrs."

Dame Eliza Manningham-Buller's full text (via MI5)


BBC: MI5 head warns on civil liberties
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2005 10:58 am
Thats a remarkable piece by Michael Meacher, thanks Walter.

In my view militant islamism is a product of USUK secret policy. It was used successfully against the Russians in Afghanistan. As Meacher demonstrates it was used against the Serbs. It was used again imo after the 911 attacks to provide the justification for the global war on terror which in turn is a cover for USUK oil policy.

We created militant Islamism. But now it has life of its own with its own agenda. We dont control it any more.

How do we combat this threat?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2005 01:39 am
Quote:


Tue 20 Sep 2005

Tube shooting: No backing for Blair

JAMES KIRKUP
WESTMINSTER EDITOR


SIR IAN Blair, Britain's top police officer, had no backing from the Metropolitan Police Authority when he tried to block an independent inquiry into the killing of an innocent Brazilian, The Scotsman has been told.

The disclosure came as it was revealed that Tony Blair and senior cabinet members had been informed about the "shoot to kill" policy which led to the death of Jean Charles de Menezes on 22 July in south London.

The killing and the policy are now the subject of an investigation by the Independent Police Complaints Commission, an inquiry that Sir Ian initially resisted.

The revelation that he did not have the backing of his police authority when he argued against the IPCC's investigation increases the political risks to the commissioner over the shooting.

Sir Ian has already faced political criticism over his attempt to delay the inquiry into the shooting at Stockwell Tube station, but it has not previously been disclosed that his decision was opposed by the MPA.

The authority oversees the Metropolitan Police and its commissioner. Among the MPA's stated responsibilities is to "oversee formal inquiries and the implementation of their recommendations".

On the afternoon of 22 July, hours after the shooting, Sir Ian wrote to the IPCC and the Home Office suggesting the independent inquiry should be delayed.

Sir Ian has said that he copied his letter to the chairman of the MPA, Len Duvall.

But The Scotsman understands that when Mr Duvall and Catherine Crawford, the MPA's chief executive, learned of Sir Ian's intention to block the inquiry, they immediately communicated their objections to his office.

According to one source, Ms Crawford even left the MPA offices in central London and went to Scotland Yard to raise the authority's objections to Sir Ian's letter directly.

There, she was told the letter had already been sent.

The commissioner's decision to seek the delay to the IPCC inquiry without consulting the MPA left authority insiders angry.

While the MPA has no say over Met operations, the authority does have a right to be consulted over the force's "strategic" conduct.

"This was a strategic question and the authority should have been consulted before a letter like that was sent," said one source.

"But when the authority tried to protest, the answer was: the letter has already gone."

Spokesmen for the MPA and the Met last night said they could not comment while the IPCC investigation into the Stockwell shooting continues.
Source
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2005 04:52 am
yet more obfuscation on behalf of authorities

i think the govt. has completely lost control in this country.

Blair put all his faith in Bush, and Bush turned out to be an idiot.

We are left with Iraq out of control. Religious crazies bombing London and police shooting an innocent Brazillian 7 times in the head. Welcome to anarchy UK.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Sep, 2005 12:26 pm
Quote:
Police chief blocked Brazilian's death probe

Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:04 PM BST

By Astrid Zweynert

LONDON (Reuters) - Letters published on Friday showed how Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair delayed an independent investigation into why an innocent Brazilian man was shot dead by police a day after the failed London bombings in July.

Blair said in a letter to the Home Office that he refused the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) access to the crime scene because the counter-terrorism investigation had to take priority.

Jean Charles de Menezes, a 27-year-old electrician, was shot in the head seven times as he boarded a train at Stockwell underground station on July 22 by police who mistook him for a would-be suicide bomber.

The shooting happened the day after four bombers failed in a bid to blow up three underground trains and a bus, and two weeks after suicide bombers killed 52 people in an identical plot.

The investigation into the shooting "will be carried out by the Met's own Directorate of Professional Standards", Blair wrote in his letter. "The investigation will be rigorous but subordinate to the needs of the counter-terrorism operation."

The IPCC's duty to provide as much information as possible to the complainant or to members of the deceased's family could put further lives at risk during a fast-moving investigation, Blair said.

"There is much concern about revealing either the tactics that we have and/or the sources of information on which we are operating."

As a chief police officer, he should be able to suspend part of a law that requires police to supply all the information that the IPCC may require, Blair wrote.

The letter ends: "Clearly, this is a developing situation but for the time being I seek your support for this measure, which may form the basis for amending legislation in the future."

Blair came under pressure for failing to stop the spread of misinformation after the shooting.

He said last week it had been a mistake not to correct rumours in the media that police had shot de Menezes because he vaulted a barrier to enter the station and was wearing a bulky coat they feared concealed a bomb.

The existence of Blair's letter emerged six weeks ago but it was published in full on Friday following a request under the Freedom of Information Act.

IPCC Deputy Chairman John Wadham told BBC News he was confident the independent investigation had not been damaged by the delay in referring the case.

The investigation is due to end before Christmas.
Source
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2005 12:40 am
Quote:
July 7 Tube bomber argued with cashier shortly before blast

By Jason Bennetto, Crime Correspondent
Published: 31 October 2005

One of the suicide bombers who attacked London on 7 July was filmed arguing with a cashier about being short-changed hours before he blew himself up.
Another of the terrorists - the teenager who destroyed a double-decker bus - was also captured on surveillance cameras wandering around the streets of London, "bumping into people", before detonating his rucksack bomb.

New details of the behaviour and last movements of the four suicide bombers, who killed 52 people, were disclosed by a representative of the Metropolitan Police Anti-Terrorist Branch, the magazine Police Review has reported.

The counter terrorist expert also told a seminar that the policing bill for the attacks on 7 July and the failed bombings on 21 July so far stands at £77m.

He warned traffic officers that the four terrorists - Mohammad Sidique Khan, 30, Shehzad Tanweer, 22, Germaine Lindsay, 19, and Hasib Hussain, 18, - did not fit the preconceived terrorist profile.

Tanweer hired a Nissan Micra and is believed to have been used to bring the other two Leeds-based terrorists, Hussain and Khan, to Luton railway station, from where they took the train into London for the bombing mission.

As an example the unnamed official told delegates that Tanweer argued with a cashier that he had been short changed, after stopping off at a petrol station on his way to the intended target in London.

The official told the seminar held in Preston, Lancashire two weeks ago: "This is not the behaviour of a terrorist - you'd think this is normal.

"Tanweer also played a game of cricket the night before he travelled down to London - now are these the actions of someone who is going to blow themselves up the next day?

"I've seen the CCTV footage of these people. They do not appear to be on their way to commit any crime at all. The Russell Square bomber [Hasib Hussain] is actually seen going into shops and bumping into people [prior to his attack].

"We have been told in the past that the normal age [for a terrorist] is about 30 ... that profile is totally wrong."

Fresh details about the apparent confusion and disorientation of the youngest bomber, Hussain, follows the disclosure that he left the Underground system and wandered around the King's Cross area - at one point he was filmed going into a McDonald's take-away - before setting off his bomb on a No 30 bus in Tavistock Square, killing 13, more than an hour after the other terrorists had detonated their devices on the Tube trains.

Tanweer detonated a bomb on a Circle line train between Aldgate and Liverpool Street stations which killed seven people, including himself.

Detectives also discovered that three of the bombers - not including Hussain - had visited London and staged a practice run nine days before the attack.

The representative from the anti-terrorist branch warned officers at the seminar that terrorists may not necessarily act like people who are about to blow themselves up.

He told delegates to watch out for signs of hostile reconnaissance. He added: "They will be looking to obtain a profile of the building, determine the best mode of attack, and determine the optimum time to conduct an operation."

The official asked officers to look out for groups of two or more people taking significant interest in the location of CCTV cameras, and also vehicles parked outside a building with people staying inside the vehicle longer than usual.

One of the suicide bombers who attacked London on 7 July was filmed arguing with a cashier about being short-changed hours before he blew himself up.

Another of the terrorists - the teenager who destroyed a double-decker bus - was also captured on surveillance cameras wandering around the streets of London, "bumping into people", before detonating his rucksack bomb.

New details of the behaviour and last movements of the four suicide bombers, who killed 52 people, were disclosed by a representative of the Metropolitan Police Anti-Terrorist Branch, the magazine Police Review has reported.

The counter terrorist expert also told a seminar that the policing bill for the attacks on 7 July and the failed bombings on 21 July so far stands at £77m.

He warned traffic officers that the four terrorists - Mohammad Sidique Khan, 30, Shehzad Tanweer, 22, Germaine Lindsay, 19, and Hasib Hussain, 18, - did not fit the preconceived terrorist profile.

Tanweer hired a Nissan Micra and is believed to have been used to bring the other two Leeds-based terrorists, Hussain and Khan, to Luton railway station, from where they took the train into London for the bombing mission.

As an example the unnamed official told delegates that Tanweer argued with a cashier that he had been short changed, after stopping off at a petrol station on his way to the intended target in London.

The official told the seminar held in Preston, Lancashire two weeks ago: "This is not the behaviour of a terrorist - you'd think this is normal.

"Tanweer also played a game of cricket the night before he travelled down to London - now are these the actions of someone who is going to blow themselves up the next day?
"I've seen the CCTV footage of these people. They do not appear to be on their way to commit any crime at all. The Russell Square bomber [Hasib Hussain] is actually seen going into shops and bumping into people [prior to his attack].

"We have been told in the past that the normal age [for a terrorist] is about 30 ... that profile is totally wrong."

Fresh details about the apparent confusion and disorientation of the youngest bomber, Hussain, follows the disclosure that he left the Underground system and wandered around the King's Cross area - at one point he was filmed going into a McDonald's take-away - before setting off his bomb on a No 30 bus in Tavistock Square, killing 13, more than an hour after the other terrorists had detonated their devices on the Tube trains.

Tanweer detonated a bomb on a Circle line train between Aldgate and Liverpool Street stations which killed seven people, including himself.

Detectives also discovered that three of the bombers - not including Hussain - had visited London and staged a practice run nine days before the attack.

The representative from the anti-terrorist branch warned officers at the seminar that terrorists may not necessarily act like people who are about to blow themselves up.

He told delegates to watch out for signs of hostile reconnaissance. He added: "They will be looking to obtain a profile of the building, determine the best mode of attack, and determine the optimum time to conduct an operation."

The official asked officers to look out for groups of two or more people taking significant interest in the location of CCTV cameras, and also vehicles parked outside a building with people staying inside the vehicle longer than usual.
Source
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2005 05:53 pm
were they duped?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 02:07 pm
The innocent Brasilian, who was shot dead by the police, was killed with dum-dum bullets, it was reveled today.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 02:16 pm
link?

Aren't those banned by the Hague Convention of 1899?

What were the police doing with them?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 02:20 pm
According to the BBC:

Quote:
The Metropolitan Police would not say if the bullets were used. There is no ban on police using such ammunition.

Dum dum bullets were invented in the 19th Century by the British in India and outlawed in warfare under the Hague Declaration in 1899


LINK
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 02:38 pm
The use of dum-dum bullets is only outlawed in warfare by that convention.
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 05:51 pm
Makes sense. It would be unwise to use a bullet that might pass through someone's body and kill/injure a third party so it seems appropriate to use a bullet that will stay inside the body of the target.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 05:54 pm
I was shocked by this for about one second.
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 06:51 am
And what exactly is a dum-dum bullet?
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 07:28 am
http://www.westfront.de/Img00263.JPG

Dum-Dum Bullet
Updated - Saturday, 1 November, 2003

The 'dum-dum' was a British military bullet developed for use in India - at the Dum-Dum Arsenal - on the North West Frontier in the late 1890s.

The dum-dum comprised a jacketed .303 bullet with the jacket nose open to expose its lead core. The aim was to improve the bullet's effectiveness by increasing its expansion upon impact.

The phrase 'dum-dum' was later taken to include any soft-nosed or hollow pointed bullet. The Hague Convention of 1899 outlawed the use of dum-dum bullets during warfare.

During the First World War the Belgian government faced German charges of having used dum-dum bullets in battle. Kaiser Wilhelm II wrote a telegram to U.S. President Woodrow Wilson on 7 September 1914 protesting such use; the Belgians strongly denied the Kaiser's charges.

http://www.firstworldwar.com/atoz/dumdum.htm
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 07:52 am
Copied from yesterday's Evening Standard


http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/316/clipboard10lp.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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