Let's fire Trump

@livinglava,

You don't know me well enough to challenge what I question myself about. It's just another round robin circular non-sequitur bull you'll pull just to point a finger.

May I remind you of your own words:

Quote:

Reasoning with others is ultimately supposed to replace shouting at each other. In other words, we're supposed to listen and discuss each others' POVs, not just trump them with our own. Yet, so many points of view today are just manifestations of ideological paradigms that are meant to propagate the paradigm. Somehow we need to be able to simultaneously question paradigms and discuss the issues that are addressed within various paradigms.

Then you go on to say:

Quote:

It's just a spark to stoke further conflict. It's identity-conflict politics. We'd all be better off just ignoring the whole issue. One day Obama's portrait will hang with other presidents, so why make a political battle out of it now?

So which is it? Are we only supposed to discuss something YOU deem necessary and be damned what others think is necessary? Yes, I would like you to give an answer as to why a sitting president will not reveal a predecessor's portrait. The issue is important to me.

2 Replies

@neptuneblue,

I've been feeding her words back to her but turned around. It seems to have quieted her. She's waiting for instructions back from Moscow.

1 Reply

@bobsal u1553115,

Quote:

I've been feeding her words back to her but turned around.

Do you think anyone cares? Exactly whose self appointed hero are you, just Neptune's or the whole forum?

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@coldjoint,

Are you volunteering for the job?

0 Replies

@coldjoint,

Yeah, its so cruel that I used her own words on her! What kind of a hero are you standing up for livinglava? ooooohhhhhhh you studly little dude, you!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!

0 Replies

@neptuneblue,

neptuneblue wrote:

You don't know me well enough to challenge what I question myself about. It's just another round robin circular non-sequitur bull you'll pull just to point a finger.

May I remind you of your own words:

Quote:
Reasoning with others is ultimately supposed to replace shouting at each other. In other words, we're supposed to listen and discuss each others' POVs, not just trump them with our own. Yet, so many points of view today are just manifestations of ideological paradigms that are meant to propagate the paradigm. Somehow we need to be able to simultaneously question paradigms and discuss the issues that are addressed within various paradigms.

Then you go on to say:

Quote:
It's just a spark to stoke further conflict. It's identity-conflict politics. We'd all be better off just ignoring the whole issue. One day Obama's portrait will hang with other presidents, so why make a political battle out of it now?

So which is it? Are we only supposed to discuss something YOU deem necessary and be damned what others think is necessary? Yes, I would like you to give an answer as to why a sitting president will not reveal a predecessor's portrait. The issue is important to me.

Right, what I'm trying to explain to you is that this whole issue of Obama's portrait is a discourse bomb designed to provoke warfare instead of reasoned discussion.

If you want to have reason-based discussion about it, you should take it out of the context of Trump v. Obama and just discuss what the issues are surrounding the politics of portrait-hanging and why anyone would either be in favor or against hanging a portrait and/or coercing someone to hang someone else's portrait in the place they live/work every day.

If you can keep the discussion out of the immediate personality politics of Trump v. Obama, it could be a discussion that doesn't drum up emotional conflict; but if you turn it into a war of those who want the portrait hung up as an exercise of power over Trump v. those who don't want it forced on Trump in defense of his right to refuse it, then it will just turn into partisan bickering and bad feelings on both sides.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

Seriously. Why do you get to direct the conversation. Is it because you have the group think down pat and new real information gets you off track???

Quote:

If you want to have reason-based discussion about it, you should take it out of the context of Trump v. Obama and just discuss what the issues are surrounding the politics of portrait-hanging and why anyone would either be in favor or against hanging a portrait and/or coercing someone to hang someone else's portrait in the place they live/work every day.

Why don't Trump/Obama enter into the discussion of Trump refusing to attend the unveiling of Obama's portrait. Wait. I finally get it. You're a LaRuchie!! That why I got the sudden urge for some bacobits!

1 Reply

@bobsal u1553115,

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Seriously. Why do you get to direct the conversation. Is it because you have the group think down pat and new real information gets you off track???

I don't get to direct the conversation except to the extent people agree with the reasons I give.

Think of it like walking together to some destination and someone says you should take the route that goes by the bridge instead of downtown.

Do you immediately question what makes them the boss who decides which route to take, or do you listen to their reasons and decide for yourself whether you think it's a good idea to go that way instead of the other way?

No one gets to be the boss when everyone is the boss over deciding whether or not to agree with someone else's reasons.

Quote:

Quote:
If you want to have reason-based discussion about it, you should take it out of the context of Trump v. Obama and just discuss what the issues are surrounding the politics of portrait-hanging and why anyone would either be in favor or against hanging a portrait and/or coercing someone to hang someone else's portrait in the place they live/work every day.

Why don't Trump/Obama enter into the discussion of Trump refusing to attend the unveiling of Obama's portrait.

They do, but I just explained why you should avoid bringing them into it to avoid making it into a partisan fight.

Instead of reading and understanding the reasons I explained, you just ignored them to argue against me. You just look for simple opportunities to go against others in order to fight with them. You just want to fight.

3 Replies

@livinglava,

Quote:

You just want to fight.

You are correct. It is the narrative du jour, or nothing.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

Quote:

You just want to fight.

Not at all. I just want you to argue fairly.

1 Reply

@bobsal u1553115,

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Quote:
You just want to fight.

Not at all. I just want you to argue fairly.

You can whitewash it by saying it that way, but the bottom line is that you don't want to discuss your thinking or that of others. You just want to shoot off arguments against what you read and launch ideological attacks, which is mostly what you do.

If you justify it by calling it 'fair argument,' it still squelches what others explain and fails to explain your own thinking in a way that engenders quality discussion.

1 Reply

@coldjoint,

Not at all I just want to hear a fair narrative from you that does color horseshit opinion as stated fact. We can discuss opinion all day but don't try to pass them off as fact. Your opinion about vax is just that: opinion. Dr Judy hasn't provern ****. When you have an opinion, preface it with the traditional, "I think ..." or "It's my opinion that ..." Not Joe Blow reported on the DODADOO blog that blah blah blah ..."

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@livinglava,

livinglava wrote:

They do, but I just explained why you should avoid bringing them into it to avoid making it into a partisan fight.

Both are subjects in this discussion. To not mention who they are would not be the point of a discussion.

Every single sitting President has unveiled a predecessor's portrait. It's tradition, pomp, circumstance, honor and prestige. Trump doesn't feel it's his duty to perform even this simple task laid out before him.

May I again remind you, this thread is called "Let's Fire Trump." If you cannot contribute to a meaningful discussion then you're just here to troll.

2 Replies

@livinglava,

You can whitewash it by saying it that way, but the bottom line is that you don't want to discuss your thinking or that of others instead of just shooting off contradictions and ideological attacks, which is mostly what you do.

1 Reply

@neptuneblue,

Quote:

If you cannot contribute to a meaningful discussion then you're just here to troll.

Aren't you forgetting someone?

Quote:

Yeah, its so cruel that I used her own words on her! What kind of a hero are you standing up for livinglava? ooooohhhhhhh you studly little dude, you!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA

That quote is from Bob. That is not contributing to the discussion. It is trolling.

1 Reply

@neptuneblue,

neptuneblue wrote:

livinglava wrote:
They do, but I just explained why you should avoid bringing them into it to avoid making it into a partisan fight.

Both are subjects in this discussion. To not mention who they are would not be the point of a discussion.

What I'm saying is keep the discussion at a general level. For example, if people were trying to make you hang a portrait you didn't want to hang in your office or home, would you appreciate that? On the other hand, what if the portrait was a former CEO who was beloved by many and there were employees who wanted his portrait hung up, in part to show you that they liked him better than you?

If Republicans had been pushing Obama with a portrait of GW Bush during his term, while they were harassing him about his birth certificate, would Democrats have gotten irritated by the harassment and stepped up their attacks about the war on terror, or would they have gleefully hung up the portrait to honor a former president?

Quote:

Every single sitting President has unveiled a predecessor's portrait. It's tradition, pomp, circumstance, honor and prestige. Trump doesn't feel it's his duty to perform even this simple task laid out before him.

When did it ever take place in the context of a witch-hunt to harass the sitting president?

Quote:

May I again remind you, this thread is called "Let's Fire Trump." If you cannot contribute to a meaningful discussion then you're just here to troll.

The thread title is about trolling Trump and people who don't like witch-hunting.

If there was a thread entitled, "let's fire all feminists," how would you feel when you showed up defending feminists and you were told you were trolling because the thread is about firing feminists?

1 Reply

@livinglava,

Fist off, we're talking about the White House, not exactly a President's permanent residence where decorations are theirs and theirs alone.

Obama had plenty of issues with George Bush, it's a matter of public record. Yet Obama set aside personal and political differences to acknowledge Bush's portrait. (That, too, is a matter of public record.)

Please explain how hanging a predecessor's portrait now turns into a witch-hunt harassment? Come on, that's beyond a rational thought.

If you don't like this thread's name, you can always start one of your own entitled, "Who Sucks Trump's Cock Better?" I'm sure there would be plenty of speculation.

2 Replies

@neptuneblue,

neptuneblue wrote:

Fist off, we're talking about the White House, not exactly a President's permanent residence where decorations are theirs and theirs alone.

See how you just shoot into debate here instead of acknowledging how you would feel if you were living/working there?

Quote:

Obama had plenty of issues with George Bush, it's a matter of public record. Yet Obama set aside personal and political differences to acknowledge Bush's portrait. (That, too, is a matter of public record.)

I don't recall anyone using the portrait of GW Bush as an opportunity to harass Obama. What would he have done, for example, if a bunch of racist haters started yelling that he better hang up that portrait to serve a superior president, etc.? That would have put him in a different position with regard to complying with the tradition, wouldn't it have?

Quote:

Please explain how hanging a predecessor's portrait now turns into a witch-hunt harassment? Come on, that's beyond a rational thought.

Trump has been witch-hunted since before he was elected. It's because the left has gone into witch-hunt mode generally and Trump is their main target. Forms of civil disobedience have been going on since Trump announced his candidacy that are beyond what went on in the past, except for maybe some things I've read about during the 1968 Democratic convention where there were threats to seduce people's wives and daughters while they were at the convention. Sometimes the left can restrain themselves from too much aggression or going too low, but in Trump's case, they can't for some reason. So it makes everything into a war-like conflict.

Do you remember the feminist expression, "the political is personal and the personal political?" Well, it's like people have taken that concept and made everything in politics and personal and emotional as possible, so now something as simple as putting up a former president's portrait becomes an opportunity to harass the sitting president on a personal level.

Quote:

If you don't like this thread's name, you can always start one of your own entitled, "Who Sucks Trump's Cock Better?" I'm sure there would be plenty of speculation.

Wow, is the use of vulgar explicit sexual language only sexual harassment when a man does it? That was totally uncalled for.

1 Reply

@coldjoint,

Cold "half the story" joint, a like reply to your original. What is with you two: reviled by tour own words!!! Think how we feel!!!! So did you forget or were you just lying? Again.

0 Replies

@livinglava,

I disagree, it was totally called for.

You want to fling **** at me but don't expect it back?

Bringing up abortion and and feminism has absolutely no bearing in this discussion, yet you tried to get a rise out of me. Twice. Well, you finally did.

And now you're sniffling, crying. Too bad, so sad.

Keep going. And so will I.

1 Reply

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