Let's fire Trump

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@bobsal u1553115,

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Right, and then re-label the buttons:
1) believe women when the accused is a Republican
2) believe women with the accused is a Democrat

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@livinglava,

That's a crock and you know it.

Did you read the part about "bearing false witness"?

1 Reply

@bobsal u1553115,

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

That's a crock and you know it.

Everything you post is a crock of partisan provocation propaganda.

You are in a discussion forum but you don't want to discuss anything; only stoke the fires of partisan conflict.

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@livinglava,

whether youve been watching or not but this entire country has been drawn up into "camps". I smile when you accuse others of "Rampant partisanship" when it was know from day 1 where your beliefs ran (even when facts and evidence refutes what you say). I dont think its fixable anymore, not with the existing Russian trolls herein and half the crowd believes em and the other half kknows they are trolls.

Before the next Civil war breaks out , Im moving to Hawaii and help push for secession .

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If you've ever wondered why trump likes OAN...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WcXhc0wk18

...wonder no more.

If you put trump's personality in a picture running, it'd probably look something like this;

https://media1.tenor.com/images/17913747e2ad4cb70d8b30a7bf6acce0/tenor.gif?itemid=5101166

And here's a gif for all the "trump haters"...

https://media1.tenor.com/images/f3960084c722bc6ad42284abffac4740/tenor.gif?itemid=9659264

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@livinglava,

Everything you post is a crock of partisan provocation propaganda.

You are in a discussion forum but you don't want to discuss anything; only enforce the party line and group think.

Who made you the boss?

1 Reply

@bobsal u1553115,

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Everything you post is a crock of partisan provocation propaganda.

You are in a discussion forum but you don't want to discuss anything; only enforce the party line and group think.

Who made you the boss?

You are the most pushy, bossy, aggressive, partisan poster I've seen on this forum. Part of it is that you spam threads with images. It's like you're just doling out ammunition for a partisan war to win elections.

People like you don't realize that when you destroy real democracy, i.e. open discussion among differing perspectives, in order to wage ideological warfare for votes, you are moving in the direction of war. War is when people don't talk and fight instead.

I may be partisan, but I post explanations to invite discussion. You post pictures and graphics that just push a perspective, not to open it up for discussion but to nail the coffin shut. If you want Democrat/socialist ideology to dominate as strongly as your spam-posts suggest, all you are doing is inviting retaliation from the right that is going to be just as bad and worse as what you are trying to do to them.

You are stupid because you are going to hate it when they do back to the left exactly what you are doing to them with your aggressive attitude. The only way to cure the failure of open-discussion in democracy is to start having open discussions without hate. What you are doing is the opposite; i.e. stoking the hate by posting provocations that work against open-discussion instead of toward it.

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@livinglava,

I disagree on multiple fronts.

You don't post anything to "invite" discussion, you make a round robin argument then declare yourself more "knowledgeable" so therefore,

Quote:

You are stupid

You nail the coffin shut more than you'd want to admit. That's ok, pretty much everyone else does the same.

You won't accept anything democratic or socialistic even though we have democracy and socialism being used in our country.

I've seen hate from both sides, but it seems you only want republicans to wipe democrats out of the picture. That's not going to happen.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

You are the most pushy, bossy, aggressive, partisan poster I've seen on this forum. Part of it is that you spam threads with foundationless conspiracy antivax crap. It's like you're just doling out ammunition for a partisan war to win elections.

People like you don't realize that when you destroy real democracy, i.e. open discussion among differing perspectives, in order to wage ideological warfare for votes, you are moving in the direction of war. War is when people don't talk and fight instead.

I may be partisan, but I post explanations to invite discussion. You post pictures and graphics that just push a perspective, not to open it up for discussion but to nail the coffin shut. If you want Libertarian/facsist ideology to dominate as strongly as your conspiracy porn suggest, all you are doing is inviting retaliation from the normal American that is going to be just as bad and worse as what you are trying to do to them.

You are stupid because you are going to hate it when normal Americans turn their backs on the RW conspiricy gun hugging fascist nutbags exactly like what you are doing to normal rational true blue ex military Americans with your dismissive attitude. The only way to cure the failure of open-discussion in democracy is to start having open discussions without conspiracy ridden blog waste. What you are doing is stoking the hate by posting provocations that work against open-discussion instead of toward it.

Just because you have the right to post lies, woooo, conspiracy tripe of the worst sort does not mean I have to drink it or like it.

Wouldn't you be better off to write me off and ignore me????

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@neptuneblue,

neptuneblue wrote:

I disagree on multiple fronts.

You don't post anything to "invite" discussion, you make a round robin argument then declare yourself more "knowledgeable" so therefore,

That's just how you read explanations. When I explain something, I am giving reasons for the reader to think about and respond to. If you take it as an assertion of me being 'knowledgable,' it is because you are focused on writing as a display of personal attributes instead of as putting thinking on the table for discussion.

Quote:

Quote:
You are stupid

You nail the coffin shut more than you'd want to admit. That's ok, pretty much everyone else does the same.

You're quoting me out of context. I didn't just tell him he was stupid period; I explained why.

Quote:

You won't accept anything democratic or socialistic even though we have democracy and socialism being used in our country.

You're not putting anything up for discussion here. You're using two words without talking about what they mean or any other aspect of them. All you are saying is, "they exist and you don't accept them."

Progress is about questioning what exists and determining what is good and bad about it in order to move beyond the status quo. Yes, there is democracy and socialism AND there is also anti-democracy and problems with socialism. If you want to discuss all that, post a thread on it.

Quote:

I've seen hate from both sides, but it seems you only want republicans to wipe democrats out of the picture. That's not going to happen.

Wrong, I want Democrats to acknowledge critiques and look back at the foundations of their ideologies in order to move forward in a way that Republicans can accept. I want Republicans to do the same.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

livinglava wrote:

Wrong, I want Democrats to acknowledge critiques and look back at the foundations of their ideologies in order to move forward in a way that Republicans can accept. I want Republicans to do the same.

None of that is going to happen with this Administration.

A simple portrait unveiling gets the president unglued.

1 Reply

@neptuneblue,

neptuneblue wrote:

livinglava wrote:
Wrong, I want Democrats to acknowledge critiques and look back at the foundations of their ideologies in order to move forward in a way that Republicans can accept. I want Republicans to do the same.

None of that is going to happen with this Administration.

A simple portrait unveiling gets the president unglued.

It's not about the administration as much as it is about public discourse.

We have internet, yet online discussion has fallen to behavior like bobsal's where he just posts propaganda spam, shouts 'word salad' at me for disagreeing, and tries to limit his discussion to people who will resonate with his POV.

Political diversity used to be valued as the cornerstone of democracy. In fact, democracy used to be recognized as the system that averts war by supplanting it with civil discourse.

Democracy isn't about winning a political war with votes and government; it's about keeping everyone representing themselves and discussing their POVs instead of fighting to dominate and subjugate others.

Reasoning with others is ultimately supposed to replace shouting at each other. In other words, we're supposed to listen and discuss each others' POVs, not just trump them with our own. Yet, so many points of view today are just manifestations of ideological paradigms that are meant to propagate the paradigm. Somehow we need to be able to simultaneously question paradigms and discuss the issues that are addressed within various paradigms.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

Here's the exact problem Lava.

You're still trying to throw another poster under the bus while deflecting what I posted.

If you'd like to stay within your own perimeters, that would be great.

If not, you get what you put in. And people get what they deserve. -Kid Rock

1 Reply

@neptuneblue,

neptuneblue wrote:

Here's the exact problem Lava.

You're still trying to throw another poster under the bus while deflecting what I posted.

If you'd like to stay within your own perimeters, that would be great.

If not, you get what you put in. And people get what they deserve. -Kid Rock

I try to discuss things and people like you turn it back into a blame/fight game.

On some level, you must consider yourself reasonable.

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@livinglava,

Yes, Lava, I do consider myself as a reasonable person. Not that I missed the sarcasm in your post, but I shall go forth and prosper.

So, please explain the logic of not unveiling a Presidential portrait. And, if you could, leave out any condescending language about Obama. It's not about him. It's about breaking protocol.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

Never ever your fault. Do you walk on water, too?

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@neptuneblue,

neptuneblue wrote:

Yes, Lava, I do consider myself as a reasonable person. Not that I missed the sarcasm in your post, but I shall go forth and prosper.

You consider yourself 'reasonable' because it's just a way for you to validate your own behavior without questioning it. You basically just took sides and stoked the blame/fight approach to discussion without saying anything meaningful. You're only able to consider yourself 'reasonable' by ignoring the fact that you don't really care about any reasoning except that which supports the outcomes you want.

Let me give you an example: everyone who wants sexual liberation wants to rationalize abortion because it removes a huge consequence of sexual indulgence, i.e. pregnancy. But then, you reason that your desire for sex without consequences is outweighed by the goodness of avoiding unnecessary surgery for women and death for fetuses, so reason trumps desire. Now you want to say that someone can choose sexual indulgence over avoiding surgery and fetus-death if they are 'reasonable,' but they are simply avoiding reason in favor of submitting to desire.

Quote:

So, please explain the logic of not unveiling a Presidential portrait. And, if you could, leave out any condescending language about Obama. It's not about him. It's about breaking protocol.

It's just a spark to stoke further conflict. It's identity-conflict politics. We'd all be better off just ignoring the whole issue. One day Obama's portrait will hang with other presidents, so why make a political battle out of it now?

2 Replies

@livinglava,

You consider yourself 'reasonable' because it's just a way for you to validate your own behavior without questioning it. You basically just took sides and stoked the blame/fight approach to discussion without saying anything meaningful. You're only able to consider yourself 'reasonable' by ignoring the fact that you don't really care about any reasoning except that which supports the outcomes you want.

Let me give you an example: everyone who decries sexual liberation wants to rationalize against abortion assuming it removes a huge consequence of sexual indulgence, i.e. pregnancy, knowing NOONE choose abortion as birth control over condoms, IUDs, the Pill. But then, you reason that someone's desire for sex without consequences is outweighed by your desire to save your soul over the free will choices of others, so self rightousness trumps other's G*d given right of self volition. Now you want to say that someone can choose sexual indulgence over surgery if they are 'reasonable, but your self righteousness has place in other's private decisions. Heck you feel like wearing a mask or getting vaccinations for public heath purposes are an infringement on your rights but feel entitled to tell women -including rape victims, incest victims, patients with certain medical conditions - what to do or not to do with their bodies and all the while advocating that putting kids into cages is a good thing.

It's just a spark to stoke further conflict. It's identity-conflict politics. We'd all be better off just ignoring the whole issue. One day Trump's portrait will hang with other presidents, so why make a political battle out of it now?

BECAUSE YOU CAN. BECAUSE YOU CAN'T HELP YOURSELF. BECAUSE YOU WILL.

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Let's fire Trump

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