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A Parlour for a Plague

 
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Oct, 2020 09:48 pm
@roger,
Yeah roger. I just realized that must be the same reason why every time I go to the pool they get your contact info.

Makes sense.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Oct, 2020 09:59 pm
Ok this is an entirely different subject, but this just pissed me off.

A bit of background.
I've been following someone on TikTok that was born intersex. She was born with one ovary, one testes, half a pancreas and I think a smaller liver. She presents as a woman. I've learned so much from her vids and her live chats, but that's another story.

Today I looked up her blog, and saw this....

https://metamorphingintomehome.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/img_1482.jpg?w=672

Wait. What?
You abort a child because you're concerned that 16, 20, 30 years from now that person won't be able to have a child themselves?

Don't you think, well, I don't know, maybe that fetus should deal with that when the time comes, as in after they're born?

Maybe they are going to be one of those crazy people who don't want kids (pointing finger at myself)

On a positive note though, I think this below is huge...

Boston Children’s Hospital will no longer perform two types of intersex surgery on children
10/22/20

This story was published in partnership with The 19th, a nonprofit, nonpartisan newsroom reporting on gender, politics and policy.

A top pediatric hospital has agreed to stop performing certain types of genital surgeries on intersex children if they are too young to meaningfully consent— a decision that activists say could be a watershed moment for intersex rights.

A spokesperson for Boston Children’s Hospital told The 19th that it “will not perform clitoroplasty or vaginoplasty in patients who are too young to participate in a meaningful discussion of the implications of these surgeries, unless anatomical differences threaten the physical health of the child.” The decision came from the hospital’s behavioral health, endocrinology and urology program.


roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Oct, 2020 10:07 pm
@Linkat,
Sounds like some restaurants don't really want coffee customers when they could fill available tables with profitable customers.

Come to think of it, it seems like many businesses and people are using the corona virus as an excuse to do what they've always wanted to do. I notice our local Smith's supermarket claims a coin shortage for not making change to some customers. If you have their loyalty card and pay cash, they round up to the nearest whole dollar and (maybe) add an equivalent credit to the card. I use the bank card instead, even though it means more bookkeeping. I notice that Denny's, Safeway, and McDonalds seem to have no problem keeping enough coins on hand.

What do you call it when someone borrows your money without your permission?
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Oct, 2020 10:24 pm
@roger,
Most of the stores I go to have signs saying to please pay with exact change or use a card.
Borat Sister
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Oct, 2020 11:05 pm
@chai2,
The killer is going to be the meaningful. It’s a great step, though.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Oct, 2020 12:54 am
@Borat Sister,
The killer?
Sorry I’m not following the
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Oct, 2020 01:00 am
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

Most of the stores I go to have signs saying to please pay with exact change or use a card.

This store doesn't say please.
0 Replies
 
Borat Sister
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Oct, 2020 01:20 am
@chai2,
The difficulty will come in defining at what age a young person can be considered able to make an informed choice.

There is some pressure because of physical changes that happen at puberty that aren’t really totally reversible

For young people who feel transgender there is medication to suppress puberty that gives them more time, if they want to have a body that is more like a cis gendered person.

I’m not sure if that works for inter gendered people.

There can be difficulties with informed and free choice if parents feel strongly one way or the other, if culture is very prescriptive etc.

Also, adolescents can change their minds.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Oct, 2020 08:57 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Cross-border toilet trips at Chester cinema fall foul of Welsh Covid rules
Quote:
Drive-in cinemagoers in Chester were almost caught short after it emerged anyone using the toilets, located across the Welsh border, would be breaking coronavirus lockdown laws.

Ticket-holders for the Storyhouse’s Moonlight Drive Halloween showings could breathe a sigh of relief on Friday, after the cinema confirmed it had found a way out of the tight spot.

Earlier this week, organisers said they had been in “a race against time” to find an alternative venue after it was found that parts of Chester FC’s Deva Stadium are in fact in Wales, which is now subject to a “circuit-breaker” lockdown until the start of 9 November.

“We could just about do it in England, but the loos are still in Wales,” the cinema’s chief executive, Andrew Bentley, said.

“We are already having to refund our customers who live in Wales as cinema is part of their circuit-breaker,” he added. “However, customers who live in England are also to be banned from straying into the wrong bit of the car park to watch the film, and Flintshire police say they will enforce at the event.”

On Friday, Storyhouse said Moonlight Drive would go ahead in Deva Stadium’s car park as planned, but that it would reduce capacity to comfortably fit all cars on the English side of the border.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Oct, 2020 11:20 am
@Borat Sister,
Ah. I see what you're saying.

The following isn't really or necessarily my opinion, just musing.

I wonder why for a recent period of time (looks like from the 1930's) it was thought that anything had to be done to "fix" it.

Obviously intersex people have been born from the dawn of man. In other times though they might have been thought of as magical, special, "touched by God" etc.
Or, it might be that because seemingly human "imperfections" either from birth or acquired, could have been viewed in a neutral way. Small pox scars, injuries from farm and hunting accidents, may have been just viewed as part of what happens to you during life. I think people were more lenient as to what was considered "normal" Even today, in areas of the world where lack of resources puts corrections of many physical differences simply out of the question, it's not a big deal. They have more important things to think about. Even in Mexico, I have seen some muy guapos men and women married to someone who in a richer society would be less likely to be their partner.

Also, it seems a good amount of the time the infant looks totally like one gender, and the differences are internal, not showing up at all until puberty. Or maybe even not then. Sometimes I'm sure it's just a non problem.

Putting parents biases aside for a moment, the idea of consent with the child.
Could be as simple as letting the child be, and see what nature teaches them about themselves. If the child consistently refers to themselves as a boy in both words and actions before lets say school age, it's pretty apparant they are boy.
In important ways I see this as really different from a transgender person. There's similarities, but differences too. I don't know if the word "reassignment" even applies.

Of course then we put parents in the mix that always wanted a boy, or a girl. With some, it's just going to be an insurmountable problem because they want what they want. However, I like to think most parents realize that for their child to be happy, the child needs to be the guide in matters like this.

Finally (for now Smile ) the idea and chance of the person changing their mind after (if needed) surgery/hormone therapy is done. Well honestly? None of us gets through this life without regrets. I think more specifically no one needs to be 2nd guessing what the persons feelings about perhaps regretable choices will be.
Most important to me, is realizing who these regrets belong to.
For instance, I cannot tell you the number of times I had been told in my life, with Great Authority that I would regret not having children.
If I could go back in time with my now life experiences, I would say "Maybe. But whose regret will be be?"

I get we want the best for those we love. But equally true is many people want what They think is the right thing for everyone else.
Trying to minimize all regrets, safeguarding others from some imperfect life, is doomed to failure.




Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Oct, 2020 01:10 pm
@farmerman,
Thanks, got back yesterday evening with just enough daylight left to pressure wash the 1800 miles of bugs off the car's nose.

I'm still in love with my car so I enjoy every mile and McDonalds of the drive. The flight out to CO was a one way trip for that plane, it was modified specifically for life at an airport where the density altitude is frequently above 11,000 feet in the summer. Bigger engine, longer wings.

Really enjoy the shock of getting back to the twenty first century every time. Just as much as leaving it behind for a few months.
0 Replies
 
Borat Sister
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Oct, 2020 06:12 pm
@chai2,
Honestly, I tend to think monotheist patriarchal religions fucked life up for anyone who was in some way or another differently or ambiguously gendered, but I could be wrong.

Seems in many cultures they’ve had a very special place....though not necessarily an unambiguously good place. For instance, for Hindus they seem to be treated very badly but are then considered a blessing at weddings etc

The thirties May have been the first time that medicine could intervene and assign a biological sex...even if they couldn’t reproduce.

chai2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2020 05:07 pm
@Borat Sister,
Reproduction is way overrated as far as I can see how many parents perform.

I'm just shocked someone would abort their future child on the premise that child wouldn't be able to reproduce in some hypothetical/unknown future. I don't think the parents of those future parents should should have been allowed to reproduce.

As far as medicine intervening and assigning a biological sex, in the words of the sage Jeff Goldblum

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/50299980.jpg
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2020 05:09 pm
@chai2,
Is it just me, or does Jeff Goldblum get hotter the older he gets?

https://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/khpr/files/styles/x_large/public/201904/jeff_feature_cover.jpg
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2020 05:43 pm
@chai2,
Imagine Jeff Goldblum with Einsteins hair. Thats sorta what I look like.
,
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2020 05:55 pm
@farmerman,
For some strange reason I suddenly felt the urge to shout Hubba Hubba, but I changed my mind.
0 Replies
 
Borat Sister
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2020 06:49 pm
@farmerman,
Hubba hubba! Also thud.
0 Replies
 
Borat Sister
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2020 06:51 pm
@chai2,
Who has aborted a child because they couldn’t reproduce?

I’m sure countries that value having multitudes of children as insurance might want to, but I haven’t read about it happening????
Borat Sister
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2020 06:52 pm
@chai2,
It is most definitely NOT just you!
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2020 08:26 pm
@Borat Sister,
Borat Sister wrote:

Who has aborted a child because they couldn’t reproduce?

I’m sure countries that value having multitudes of children as insurance might want to, but I haven’t read about it happening????


https://metamorphingintomehome.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/img_1482.jpg?w=672

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8479531_Factors_Influencing_Parental_Decision_Making_in_Prenatal_Diagnosis_of_Sex_Chromosome_Aneuploidy

From the link above...

Abstract
To evaluate factors influencing parental decisions toward continuing or terminating a pregnancy with prenatal diagnosis of sex chromosome aneuploidy. We reviewed the records of patients with fetuses with sex chromosome aneuploidy between 1990 and 2001. A questionnaire survey of women who chose to terminate such pregnancies was designed to examine aspects of their decision-making process. Forty-nine of 89 pregnancies with sex chromosome aneuploidy were terminated (termination rate 0.55; 95% confidence interval 0.45-0.65). Pregnancies with abnormal ultrasound findings (14/16, 87%), with 45,X or 47,XXY karyotypes (26/36, 72%), and with nonmosaic karyotypes (30/48, 63%) were terminated significantly more often than pregnancies with normal ultrasound findings (35/73, 48%; P <.01), with 47,XXX or 47,XYY karyotypes (4/12, 33%; P <.05), and with mosaic karyotypes (5/25, 20%; P =.01). There was a trend (P =.136) toward a lower rate of termination from 67% to 36% across time, with a significant decrease from 67% to 7% in pregnancies with 47,XXX; 47,XYY; and mosaic karyotypes (P <.01), and no change in cases with 45,X and 47,XXY karyotypes (67% compared with 69%; P = 1.0). Abnormal sexual development and infertility were the greatest parental concerns related to termination. Fear of having a child with abnormal sexual development or infertility remains the major determinant of parental decision toward terminating pregnancy, resulting in consistently high termination rates across time in pregnancies with 45,X and 47,XXY karyotypes. In cases with 47,XXX; 47,XYY; and mosaic karyotypes, the declining termination rate across time is a consequence of recent studies reporting normal sexual development and fertility.
 

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