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A Call for Intelligent Respectful Discussion

 
 
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2015 12:33 pm
I come to Able2Know for intelligent respectful discussion. I enjoy discussing topics that interest me with people who don't agree with me. This is best way to learn, and the best way to test and refine my opinions. Occasionally my mind is changed by a good discussion.

More and more able2know seems to be overrun with personal attacks, vendettas and ideological speech that allows no compromise or discussion. I would like to reach to people who like me, would like to be able to have respectful, intelligent, discussions without the name calling and sometimes hateful attacks.

After all, if we don't like each other, then why waste the time typing to each other.

I suggest a couple of guidelines to have intelligent, respectful discussions with people you don't agree with.

1) Questioning, or even attacking, an idea, or an ideology or an argument is a legitimate part of a discussion. No idea, ideology or argument should be considered to sacred to question. If an idea is so sacred to you that you don't want to debate it, then don't debate it.

2) Attacking a person... name-calling or demonizing an A2Kmember is never helpful or acceptable.

3) Personal vendettas are counter-productive. You should support a good point no matter who is making it (everyone makes good points some times). Taking bad blood from thread to thread makes intelligent discussion nearly impossible.

4) Facts are good. Research is good. Someone who backs their points up with valid scientific research should be supported. Of course it is valid to debate whether research is valid or not... but the debate should be intelligent and respectful.

It is really hard to have any intelligent conversation on an issue here. The threads are overrun with personal attacks very quickly. There is little thoughtful response being given to anything.

If you like this, then keep going.

I am hoping that there are enough of us that want intelligent, thoughtful debates without all of the personal attacks that we can do something about it.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 23 • Views: 12,642 • Replies: 218

 
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2015 12:53 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
2) Attacking a person... name-calling or demonizing an A2Kmember is never helpful or acceptable.


You should print this up in a large font, in bold face and tape it on your monitor. Recently, i criticized a position you took, and your response to was not to address the criticism, but to laugh and suggest that i was "grumpy" and needed a hug. You never addressed the criticism. I've seen you do this again and again when Izzy posts. Pot, meet kettle.

Hypocrixy, thy name is Maxdancona.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2015 12:56 pm
@Setanta,
I don't believe I have ever personally attacked Izzy. If I did, then I will apologize. I apologize for calling you "grumpy". You are right, I will not do that again.

I am sincere in my desire for intelligent respectful discussion. Where I can do better, I will.


Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2015 12:57 pm
Following with interest.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  4  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2015 01:57 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
Hypocrixy, thy name is Maxdancona.


Exxxcellent
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2015 02:21 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
More and more able2know seems to be overrun with personal attacks, vendettas and ideological speech
Very common with internet forums you'll find, sites of this sort providing anonymity

Max can you tell us (me) anything about yourself that doesn't compromise your identity
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2015 02:22 pm
@Setanta,
You've hit the nail square on the head. Nobody could ever accuse you of being dishonest, and I appreciate arguing with someone who's not scared to tell me exactly what he thinks of me.

Getting upset about something and rousing passion is a sign you're alive, a human being, not some fake persona hidden behind another string of fake personas turning all emotion and feeling into one big amorphous grey lump.

The only thing I know for certain about Max is he's a liar, not to be trusted on anything. When you talk to him you never know what face you're talking to.

This whole thread is not just a bait thread but a big PR exercise with him putting his reasonable "I'm listening" persona forward. His passive/aggressive insults are every bit as insulting as any other insult. Saying you needed a hug is exactly the same as calling you ridiculous and belittling every thing you've said.

He's done exactly the same to me, he's not got the guts to speak his mind so he hides behind innuendo. And he still thinks he can lie his way out of it, pretend it's honest mistake, and all in the other person's head. He after all, never stoops to personal insults, how could we misjudge him so.

Some people may fall for it, but I'm not.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2015 02:46 pm
Uh-oh . . . i misspelled hypocrisy . . .

[hangs head in shame, wanders out of the thread . . . ]

. . . oh, the horror, the horror.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2015 02:46 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I don't believe I have ever personally attacked Izzy.


You know that comparing me to Oralloy is the biggest insult possible. I would rather be called, or accused of anything than be compared to that creature. And you know that. And you keep doing it, at least three times since I told you how offensive it was.

You like to throw in a bit of praise just to put people off. On the thread about bullying, in the middle of an argument, you decided to praise my 'wonderful sense of humour' after I'd cut and posted something from the net. Something anyone could do regardless of whether or not they actually had a sense of humour. In short you were saying the exact opposite.

You use hyperbole to ridicule and belittle, describing my single parenthood as 'heroic,' which it clearly isn't. Again suggesting ridicule and implying I go on about it all the time, I don't. I don't hide it, because it's part of who I am, but I do get angry when people who aren't single dads lie about being one just to get a bit of kudos with Germlat.

Max wrote:
If I did, then I will apologize.


Your apologies, like your compliments, mean nothing. Now I know you're going to accuse me of over-analysing things, and misjudging you, and probably being paranoid, but I don't care either way. It's not like you're that interesting in the first place.

Max wrote:
I am sincere in my desire for intelligent respectful discussion.


This is something I do believe, you do want to turn the clock back, which is why you started this thread, why you're trying to lie your way out of things, and, more importantly, why you're blaming everyone else for the current situation.

That will never happen though, not until you're honest for a change.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2015 03:25 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
I am hoping that there are enough of us that want intelligent, thoughtful debates without all of the personal attacks that we can do something about it.

I'm interested, but I'm not sure exactly what can be done about it.

There is a "parallel a2k" on Facebook that supposedly allows no name-calling. But I am suspicious, as most of the people who extol it for the alleged lack of name-calling, are the very people who spout name-calling here on a2k.

But anyway as I said, I'm interested, but unsure what can be done.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2015 03:59 pm
@izzythepush,
Izzy,

I do not believe that I have personally attacked you.

I don't accept your personal animosity with Oralloy. I understand that you were insulted by my statements about you and Oralloy... although I don't think that what I said is particularly offensive to either you or Oralloy. The point is that you and Oralloy are both members of Able2know that I agree at times, and disagree with other times. I don't see how this is offensive.

However, if it will help to have respectful conversations, I will retract this and refrain from making this point ever again.

I also see that the "single parent" conversation bothered you. You said that although I am single, and I am parent, I don't have the right to call myself a "single parent" since I don't have my daughter 100% of the time. I admit I was a little taken aback by this. My response was a bit sarcastic... but if that counts as a personal attack it is a pretty mild one.

Again, if it will help, I apologize for my sarcasm.

A big point is the personal vendetta rule. Treating each thread as a separate entity will go a long way to making this a better place.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2015 04:04 pm
@izzythepush,
I also want to point out, Izzy, that there is a big difference between attacking a person and attacking an argument. I will poke fun at arguments and ideologies without attacking people. This is legitimate form of debate and isn't a personal attack. I don't mind when my beliefs are challenged or my ideas are attacked. There are many people, for example Thomas, who challenge some of my beliefs pretty strongly with attacking me as a person. I appreciate this.

I have never called you a 'liar'. I have stated my opinion that some of your arguments are logically flawed. There is a big difference.... the first is an example of attacking a person, the second is attacking an argument.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2015 04:18 pm
Let me also make this clear. My feelings have never hurt on Able2know. That isn't the issue. I don't care if anyone here calls me a liar or a hypocrite. It is pretty easy to ignore these things.

The problem with these personal attacks is the 3 pages of meaningless back and forth that follow them. It takes away from the ability to have a real intelligent discussion.

Again, my desire is to have intelligent respectful discussions with people who I don't agree with (much more interesting them people with whom I agree).

A direct, childish attack, like (my personal favorite) "You are a Prick" gets lots of upthumbs. People seem to like name-calling. But after that, the interesting difference in opinion that could lead to intelligent discussion gets lost. That is the real shame here.

Am I alone in the desire of being able to have reasonable conversation with people who don't agree with me?


oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2015 04:24 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Am I alone in the desire of being able to have reasonable conversation with people who don't agree with me?

I too find such conversation interesting.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2015 04:41 pm
@oralloy,
Good Oralloy, I think the challenge is to disengage from the personal attacks and focus on the topic. If enough of us choose to do this, then the atmosphere on Able2know will change.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2015 04:46 pm
@oralloy,
Max meet Oral, Oral meet Max. I wish you many happy hours discussing Amanda Knox and your debatable views on feminism.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2015 04:56 pm
@glitterbag,
Glitterbag, I am offering you an opportunity to discuss issues related to feminism with someone who doesn't agree with you. Of course my views are "debatable views", that is the point and the reason I am here. If you don't want to discuss the topic, then don't join in.

My regret is that the personal sniping that takes place here on any issue that is the slightest bit controversial prevents anyone from having an intelligent discussion. Shutting down an opinion that you don't want to discuss with personal attacks so that no one can discuss it doesn't seem fair to me.
Lustig Andrei
 
  4  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2015 05:06 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

Max meet Oral, Oral meet Max. I wish you many happy hours discussing Amanda Knox and your debatable views on feminism.


If you didn't know better, glitter, you'd think these two dudes are two of the most reasonable and polite posters on a2k. Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2015 05:12 pm
@maxdancona,
Well I feel badly for you that you believe some opinions are unfair. I don't usually care to "debate" you because I find you repetitive, obstinate and boring. I'm sure you are a wonderful human being, but I find it pointless to discuss what word is used to determine if woman and men should have a level playing field. And I find imbuing a word with your personal distaste is like having a single definition of Catholic, Protestant, Judaism as if the word can be only positive or negative. I suppose (and I mean no insult) that I prefer not to engage you often because I don't find your arguments very well developed and not particularly intelligent. However, Oral claims he desires intelligent discourse, so I urge you to swap views with him. He said he's willing, give him a chance.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2015 05:16 pm
@glitterbag,
Glitterbag.

I have opinions that differ from your opinions. This is not a bad thing, it is part of being human. My point is that if you care to discuss these issues, then I would love to discuss them with you. I don't find discussing issues with people who agree with me to be nearly as interesting.

If you don't want to enter a discussion, then don't enter it. My objection is to the personal attacks which serve to prevent other people from discussing the issues.

If you don't want to debate me, then don't debate me. I only ask that you let those of us who do want to have the debate to do so.


0 Replies
 
 

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