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Wed 29 Jun, 2005 10:56 am
All parties entering must leave their guns and knives at the door , thank you.
I am from the more liberal side of the political fence, but have always had sympathy with some conservative view points. What I don't understand is why conservatives are so supportive of what I consider Bush's liberal agenda.
I always thought that fiscal responsibility, smaller gov't, and minding our own business were important themes in Conservative platform. So why can Bush basically bankrupt the country with some idea that he is going to free the world and Conservatives applaud this?. It sounds more like a half-baked liberal cause to me: "Hey man, I have a groovy idea, like let's empty the treasury and free the world." -?? In the process the administration has created a Big Brother department to make sure you don't check out any naughty library books. The Bush adminstration continues to limit our freedom to express ourselves by implying that the Government is America and if you criticize your Gov't you must hate America. Why would Conservatives support this? Is it the Christian thing? Do Conservatives really believe God is acting through this adminstration?
I remember seeing a news show about Afghanistan pre-9/11. When I learned what the Taliban was doing to women the Liberal Warrior in me wanted to personally raise an army and go beat the crap out them. A rather conservative friend of mine said "America needs to stay at home and not police the world, we can't save everyone from every fascist group or individual that comes along". I was thrilled when the US went after the Taliban post 9/11. I was sure this would be an opportunity to catch Osama and free the women of the Afghanistan. However, my hopes have not come true. It fact my nightmares have. Does anyone really feel safer with the current Iraq and North Korea situations? Are Conservatives OK with the idea that the blood and money needed to fuel this conflict could be endless? Do Conservatives really believe the WMD story or that Iraqi had 9/11 connections? A former con-artist once told me "people will believe anything if you first convince them that you are on their side and have their best interest at heart - after that they will empty their pockets into your hands". Is that what Bush has done?
I may not agree with many Conservative issues, but just because they don't see the world in my liberal light does not make for less thought. This administration seems to be a ship of fools and I don't understand why the average Conservative has bought a ticket for the ride.
If Al Gore had won the election in 2000 and was following this exact path I think some Conservative would have popped him by now. Lucky for Bush, most liberals don't own guns.
At least can any Conservatives tell me if they had their say, what would you like to have seen done differently by this administration? or is it all just perfection? Most Conservative thinkers I've known could at least say when something wasn't working" "oops, maybe we need a new approach". They didn't just keep marching off the proverbial cliff (actually, more of liberal friends are guilty of going over). Why is it OK for this administration to act like the Vatican? or are they truly infallible in your eyes?
Have to go back to work, but I will check in later. (Again, no nasty hair pulling, food throwing, or kicks to the groin please)
knife marking until later.
I honestly think that Bush's continued suport has one out of three reasons:
1) The vast minority who support him benefit from his policies.
2) A much greater majority simply support Bush because of fear of the 'other' guy. Whomever that is at the time. More voted for not Kerry this last election (and to be fair it was close to the voter who voted not Bush).
3) Simple penis measuring. Many have tied 'their' party to Bush and cannot stand to unhitch it now. So at the risk of looking absurd they hold on.
I think the majority lie in #2 and #3. It is not that they like Bush in particular or his policies - it is just they fear the unkown.
Even Allawi could not admit in a recent interview that he is safer in Iraq now - how the heck can we in America feel safer.
TTF
Green Witch wrote:What I don't understand is why conservatives are so supportive of what I consider Bush's liberal agenda.
I always thought that fiscal responsibility, smaller gov't, and minding our own business were important themes in Conservative platform. So why can Bush basically bankrupt the country with some idea that he is going to free the world and Conservatives applaud this?. It sounds more like a half-baked liberal cause to me: "Hey man, I have a groovy idea, like let's empty the treasury and free the world." -?? In the process the administration has created a Big Brother department to make sure you don't check out any naughty library books. The Bush adminstration continues to limit our freedom to express ourselves by implying that the Government is America and if you criticize your Gov't you must hate America. Why would Conservatives support this? Is it the Christian thing? Do Conservatives really believe God is acting through this adminstration?
I don't think real conservatives do support this. It is the Neo-Cons in the republican party that are pushing this agenda and you are right about it being a half baked liberal idea. Pat Buchanan writes about them:
Quote:Who are the neoconservatives? The first generation were ex-liberals, socialists, and Trotskyites, boat-people from the McGovern revolution who rafted over to the GOP at the end of conservatism's long march to power with Ronald Reagan in 1980.
There is a quote by Paul Gottfried that says: "The offensives of radicalism have driven vast herds of liberals across the borders into our territories. These refugees now speak in our names, but the language they speak is the same one they always spoke. We have grown familiar with it, have learned to tolerate it, but it is tolerable only by contrast to the harsh syllables of the barbarians over the border. It contains no words for the things that we value. Our estate has been taken over by an impostor, just as we were about to inherit."
edited to finish quote
Just because Mr. Bush calls himself a Conservative doesn't make it so. I could call myself the starting quarterback for the NY Jets, and it would be about as close to the truth.
Not all Conservatives believe in exactly the same things, but here are some of the positions there is general agreement on:
1. Fiscal responsibility. Saying that Mr. Bush has been spending money like a drunken sailor is a horrible insult to drunken sailors.
2. Individual freedom. How about that "Patriot Act"?
3. Opposition to new Government Give-Away Programs. There's the Prescription drug "benefit" for starters.
4. Avoiding overseas adventures. Iraq?
IMHO, if Mr. Bush is a conservative, then just pass me the football.
Interesting guys and I agree that it's the Neo-C's behind the throne, but plain old fashioned Conservatives must have voted for the guy or he would not be in office now. The regular folks put him over the line and into the driver's seat. Why? and would they do it again today?
Does any Bush supporter now regret voting for him in this last election? I'm not saying would you prefer Kerry, but rather would you have liked a "none of the above" option instead of Bush?
Really interesting! Listening for now.
So where are the Conservatives ? Come on, put down the Wall St. Journal and The Christian Review and make a statement here. I'm hearing more from folks like me.
Bush isn't conservative enough for me, except for the religion angle. He's over the top religious right in that respect.
BTW, I never take off my CCW when walking the halls of A2K.
I would have preferred none of the above.
I think part of the reason he is in office is he appeals to a large variety of people. He passes tax cuts to appeal to those people but at the same time increases spending to appeal to big government people. He got the majority of religious votes by opposing abortion and gay marriage but appealed to the war mongers at the same time. He is a walking contradiction.
Paul Wolfowitz writes about Bush:
Quote:The first time I met Bush 43, I knew he was different....One, he didn't know very much. The other was that he had the confidence to ask questions that revealed he didn't know very much.
i think this is a very important and telling quote. For one he says Bush didn't know much and points out the fact that he asked questions about what he did not know. I think the Neo cons used this to their advantage and molded him to their liking.
Just hink about how much his "compassionate conservative" speeches in the first election contrast with his "Evil doers" talk... it is almost like two different people. I think a lot of people voted for one man and got the other.
jpin - good point- I agree he is like two different people. One talks and the other acts, but the talk and actions have no connections. It seems obvious to me, but many people do not seem to see it.
Blatham just asked some of our conservative brethren just what they think a liberal is. McGentrix demonstrated an inability to state his point of view.
Atkins wrote:Blatham just asked some of our conservative brethren just what they think a liberal is. McGentrix demonstrated an inability to state his point of view.
Great... I don't understand how that relates to this thread, though.
Atkins wrote:Blatham just asked some of our conservative brethren just what they think a liberal is. McGentrix demonstrated an inability to state his point of view.
You're a college professor, right?
Green Witch wrote:All parties entering must leave their guns and knives at the door , thank you.
(Again, no nasty hair pulling, food throwing, or kicks to the groin please)
What does that mean to you? I have no posts in this thread and I would appreciate you not dragging my name around.
McG, you should be flattered! Being cited from one thread to another. That's cool no?
Anyhow, I think Green Witch summed things up well in her opening statement. And I agree with the idea, as stated by others, that just because Bush calls himself an conservative doesn't make it so...
McG is correct - this is to be a discussion among grown-ups. I know people will not agree on the politics, but the purpose of this thread is to understand other people's perceptions and beliefs. There are plenty of existing threads for people to throw spit balls at each other.
Atkins wrote:Blatham just asked some of our conservative brethren just what they think a liberal is. McGentrix demonstrated an inability to state his point of view.
Liberal: A Conservative who hasn't been mugged yet.
Conservative: A liberal who hasn't graduated from home schooling yet.
This dittos my views of Bush and Co. Sadly, the Democratic party did not give the Paleo-Cons a choice that they could live with.
I would much prefer a policy of "we are friends of liberty everywhere, but defenders only of our own."
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