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Bush Speaks Tonight From Fort Bragg- Oooh-Rah!

 
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jun, 2005 09:28 pm
The speech probably was the best Bush could do inder the circumstances.

He needs to get people thinking about US vs THEM, and stop concentrating on the little tricks and lies which got us involved in the first place.

No mention of WMD's. The fighters in Iraq are described as having the same philosophy as bin Laden-which is a neat way to come close to saying Iraq is responsible for 9/11 without actually saying it.

It's an appeal to the emotions. I think it will get him a brief bump in the polls, but as the bad news multiplies, I think it will be forgotten quickly.
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jun, 2005 09:35 pm
Oops.
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jun, 2005 09:35 pm
McGentrix wrote:

But at the current exchange rate, it's only 6/10ths of the truth.

81 cents.

www.xe.com
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jun, 2005 09:35 pm
Oops.
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jun, 2005 09:36 pm
Oops. Quadruple post. I thought that message was taking an awful long time to submit! Razz
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lightfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jun, 2005 10:39 pm
Quote.
looking ahead, he warned as he often has of "tough moments that test America's resolve." But he said the sacrifice would prove worthwhile to the Iraqis and to Americans.(unquote)




Only read a bit of the presidents speech....and as a non member the USA I found this part to be what I would imagine a early priest in his temple would say... with the same thought in his mind... the "sacrificer's" gifts will be on his temple's plate not the masses.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 06:26 am
blatham wrote:
PD

Did you watch the speech? It was really a zero, or seemed so to me. What is you reading on what Rove and crowd are thinking?


There was no expectation that it would be any more than a zero. In this respect the President met expectations. If the bar were any lower he'd be a limbo master (that is, if the rules were changed to allow points for stepping over it).

Rove needs enemies -- someone or something to demonize -- in order to thrive; he and Cheney are simpatico in this respect. One week it's judges; one week it's the Senate; the following week it's liberals in general. Keep an eye out for next week's bad guys.

Ten-to-one it's not al-Qaeda.

If the administration were half as good at fighting the terrorists as they are at whipping their political opponents' asses (and that includes the Republicans who occasionally step out of the party line), the war really would've been over when Bush landed on the Abraham Lincoln.

To answer your question: they're enjoying this fresh game of kicking the anthill. But they've retreated again for now; it will be a short while before they resurface from the bunker to resume their taunts.
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squinney
 
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Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 06:34 am
Re: brief bump in the polls... NPR reported yesterday that prior to speech disapproval of way Bush is handling Iraq = 53%. After speech = 55%.
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au1929
 
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Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 06:44 am
kelticwizard
" Appeal to the emotions" Ha. I can't express the emotion he brings out in me anytime he opens his mealy, lying mouth.
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kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 09:52 am
Well, there have been 8,000 people killed by the insurgents in the past 6 months, mostly Iraqi civilians. Bush's war is doing a pretty good job of wiping out random Iraqi people for no good reason. I'm sure Saddam would be proud.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 10:12 am
squinney

That does not surprise me.

PD

Understood, and I expect 'liberalism' to be the broad target. I'm guessing that Rove is looking up ahead one year, then to 2008 and that his strategies all fall out from this. Retaining control overtly and covertly is his central aim. I'm not sure how many seats might be in play but he'll know exactly.

But the continued slide in polls will hurt, perhaps particularly the polls of women's notions. Iraq is bad news and nothing much but bad news (even if the press/tv here have been pretty much sanitized of any dim reality of blown up people), the big economy guys are seriously worried about a crash, and Bush is looking increasingly like a loser and increasingly perceived to be untrustworthy.

The next year and a bit will get ugly. Klein's book is just a shot over the bow.
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 10:39 am
I have not seen this in any of the US media but it looks like the US is try to talk its way out of Iraq, if not throw in the towel. I suspect that Bush's speech the other night was mostly bluster for domestic consumption.

Link to London Sunday Times article
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1669601_1,00.htm

US 'in talks with Iraq with Iraq rebels'
Hala Jaber
Insurgents reveal secret face-to-face meetings

Quote from the London Sunday Times article


"Time magazine reported in February that a meeting had taken place between one representative of the insurgents and two US military officials. Earlier this month it was claimed that indirect negotiations had begun through an intermediary".

"The meetings described to The Sunday Times appear to have been the first formal talks between the two sides."

"An interior ministry official in Baghdad said he was not aware of the two encounters but knew that the Pentagon and State Department had been anxious to talk to insurgent leaders for some time."

"The Americans want to expedite this matter of talks with the insurgents," said Dr Sabah Kathim, the ministry's senior spokesman.
"They initially thought they could win it through military operations and now they have come to realise that the military option will not provide them with the solution, so they are going for the political option as well."


But we have some conditions

"After a discussion about Al-Qaeda activities, the Americans bluntly advised the Iraqis to "cease all support, logistics and cover for Zarqawi's group". Only if links to Al-Qaeda were severed would the Americans be ready to discuss Iraqi demands.
"Our response was that we will never abandon any Muslim who has come to our country to help us defend it," the commander said."
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woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 10:50 am
kickycan wrote:
Well, there have been 8,000 people killed by the insurgents in the past 6 months, mostly Iraqi civilians. Bush's war is doing a pretty good job of wiping out random Iraqi people for no good reason. I'm sure Saddam would be proud.


Insurgents kill civilians and you blame Bush???

Rolling Eyes
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 10:53 am
Well, he DID start the war, didn't he?

Cycloptichorn
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woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 10:59 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Well, he DID start the war, didn't he?

Cycloptichorn


Well, with that logic, I guess we can blame Henry Ford for all the people killed in auto accidents.
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 11:00 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Well, he DID start the war, didn't he?

Cycloptichorn


Ahh ... the "blame America first" attitude.

And the US did "something" to cause the radical islamic terrorists to hate the US ... thus, the US has no one to blame but itself for 9/11.

Did I get that right, Cyclops? Did those "little Eichmanns" get what they had coming? Let's not blame the terrorists, after all, they are only reacting to what the US has done.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 11:03 am
Well, first you have to stop conflating 9/11 with Iraq. The two had nothing to do with one another.

It would be akin to us here in the US attacking France, who responds by attacking Mexico. Close Geographical boundaries do not the same country make.

The invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism at all.

The fact is that Bush wanted this war and there is a mountain of evidence showing that they planned it long before they drummed up justification for the war. So, yes, Bush started the war. He wanted it, he pushed for it, he ignored counter-evidence that what we were doing was wrong.

I'm not 'blaming America first' because I don't think that Bush=America. So save your insults.

Cycloptichorn
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kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 11:07 am
Ticomaya wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Well, he DID start the war, didn't he?

Cycloptichorn


Ahh ... the "blame America first" attitude.


Wrong. It's the "blame that talking chimp in the whitehouse first" attitude. Get it right, would you? He is not America. If he was, the flag would have a bunch of bananas on it instead of stars.
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 11:09 am
kickycan wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Well, he DID start the war, didn't he?

Cycloptichorn


Ahh ... the "blame America first" attitude.


Wrong. It's the "blame that talking chimp in the whitehouse first" attitude. Get it right, would you? He is not America. If he was, the flag would have a bunch of bananas on it instead of stars.


Okay, is it the "let's not blame the terrorists" attitude?
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 11:09 am
Quote:
June 29, 2005, 9:12 a.m.
It's All About 9/11
The president links Iraq and al Qaeda ?- and the usual suspects moan.

President George W. Bush forcefully explained last night ?- some of us would say finally forcefully explained last night after too long a lull ?- why our military operations in Iraq are crucial to success in the war on terror.

It was good to hear the commander-in-chief remind people that this is still the war against terror. Specifically, against Islamo-fascists who slaughtered 3000 Americans on September 11, 2001. Who spent the eight years before those atrocities murdering and promising to murder Americans ?- as their leader put it in 1998, all Americans, including civilians, anywhere in the world where they could be found.

It is not the war for democratization. It is not the war for stability. Democratization and stability are not unimportant. They are among a host of developments that could help defeat the enemy.

But they are not the primary goal of this war, which is to destroy the network of Islamic militants who declared war against the United States when they bombed the World Trade Center on February 26, 1993, and finally jarred us into an appropriate response when they demolished that complex, struck the Pentagon, and killed 3000 of us on September 11, 2001.

That is why we are in Iraq.

On September 12, 2001, no one in America cared about whether there would be enough Sunni participation in a fledgling Iraqi democracy if Saddam were ever toppled. No one in lower Manhattan cared whether the electricity would work in Baghdad, or whether Muqtada al-Sadr's Shiite militia could be coaxed into a political process. They cared about smashing terrorists and the states that supported them for the purpose of promoting American national security.

Saddam Hussein's regime was a crucial part of that response because it was a safety net for al Qaeda. A place where terror attacks against the United States and the West were planned. A place where Saddam's intelligence service aided and abetted al Qaeda terrorists planning operations. A place where terrorists could hide safely between attacks. A place where terrorists could lick their wounds. A place where committed terrorists could receive vital training in weapons construction and paramilitary tactics. In short, a platform of precisely the type without which an international terror network cannot succeed.

The president should know he hit the sweet spot during his Fort Bragg speech because all the right people are angry. The New York Times, with predictable disingenuousness, is railing this morning that the 9/11 references in the speech are out of bounds because Iraq had "nothing whatsoever to do with the terrorist attacks." Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid and the tedious David Gergen, among others, are in Gergen's words "offended" about use of the 9/11 "trump card."

If the president is guilty of anything, it's not that he's dwelling on 9/11 enough. It's that the administration has not done a good enough job of probing and underscoring the nexus between the Saddam regime and al Qaeda. It is absolutely appropriate, it is vital, for him to stress that connection. This is still the war on terror, and Iraq, where the terrorists are still arrayed against us, remains a big part of that equation.

And not just because every jihadist with an AK-47 and a prayer rug has made his way there since we invaded. No, it's because Saddam made Iraq their cozy place to land long before that. They are fighting effectively there because they've been invited to dig in for years.

The president needs to be talking about Saddam and terror because that's what will get their attention in Damascus and Teheran. It's not about the great experiment in democratization ?- as helpful as it would be to establish a healthy political culture in that part of the world. It's about making our enemies know we are coming for them if they abet and harbor and promote and plan with the people who are trying to kill us.

On that score, nobody should worry about anything the Times or David Gergen or Senator Reid has to say about all this until they have some straight answers on questions like these. What does the "nothing whatsoever" crowd have to say about:

Ahmed Hikmat Shakir ?- the Iraqi Intelligence operative who facilitated a 9/11 hijacker into Malaysia and was in attendance at the Kuala Lampur meeting with two of the hijackers, and other conspirators, at what is roundly acknowledged to be the initial 9/11 planning session in January 2000? Who was arrested after the 9/11 attacks in possession of contact information for several known terrorists? Who managed to make his way out of Jordanian custody over our objections after the 9/11 attacks because of special pleading by Saddam's regime?

Saddam's intelligence agency's efforts to recruit jihadists to bomb Radio Free Europe in Prague in the late 1990's?

Mohammed Atta's unexplained visits to Prague in 2000, and his alleged visit there in April 2001 which ?- notwithstanding the 9/11 Commission's dismissal of it (based on interviewing exactly zero relevant witnesses) ?- the Czechs have not retracted?

The Clinton Justice Department's allegation in a 1998 indictment (two months before the embassy bombings) against bin Laden, to wit: In addition, al Qaeda reached an understanding with the government of Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al Qaeda would work cooperatively with the Government of Iraq.

Seized Iraq Intelligence Service records indicating that Saddam's henchmen regarded bin Laden as an asset as early as 1992?

Saddam's hosting of al Qaeda No. 2, Ayman Zawahiri beginning in the early 1990's, and reports of a large payment of money to Zawahiri in 1998?

Saddam's ten years of harboring of 1993 World Trade Center bomber Abdul Rahman Yasin?

Iraqi Intelligence Service operatives being dispatched to meet with bin Laden in Afghanistan in 1998 (the year of bin Laden's fatwa demanding the killing of all Americans, as well as the embassy bombings)?

Saddam's official press lionizing bin Laden as "an Arab and Islamic hero" following the 1998 embassy bombing attacks?

The continued insistence of high-ranking Clinton administration officials to the 9/11 Commission that the 1998 retaliatory strikes (after the embassy bombings) against a Sudanese pharmaceutical factory were justified because the factory was a chemical weapons hub tied to Iraq and bin Laden?

Top Clinton administration counterterrorism official Richard Clarke's assertions, based on intelligence reports in 1999, that Saddam had offered bin Laden asylum after the embassy bombings, and Clarke's memo to then-National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, advising him not to fly U-2 missions against bin Laden in Afghanistan because he might be tipped off by Pakistani Intelligence, and "[a]rmed with that knowledge, old wily Usama will likely boogie to Baghdad"? (See 9/11 Commission Final Report, p. 134 & n.135.)

Terror master Abu Musab Zarqawi's choice to boogie to Baghdad of all places when he needed surgery after fighting American forces in Afghanistan in 2001?

Saddam's Intelligence Service running a training camp at Salman Pak, were terrorists were instructed in tactics for assassination, kidnapping and hijacking?

Former CIA Director George Tenet's October 7, 2002 letter to Congress, which asserted: Our understanding of the relationship between Iraq and Al Qaeda is evolving and is based on sources of varying reliability. Some of the information we have received comes from detainees, including some of high rank.

We have solid reporting of senior level contacts between Iraq and Al Qaeda going back a decade.

Credible information indicates that Iraq and Al Qaeda have discussed safe haven and reciprocal nonaggression.

Since Operation Enduring Freedom, we have solid evidence of the presence in Iraq of Al Qaeda members, including some that have been in Baghdad.

We have credible reporting that Al Qaeda leaders sought contacts in Iraq who could help them acquire WMD capabilities. The reporting also stated that Iraq has provided training to Al Qaeda members in the areas of poisons and gases and making conventional bombs.

Iraq's increasing support to extremist Palestinians coupled with growing indications of relationship with Al Qaeda suggest that Baghdad's links to terrorists will increase, even absent U.S. military action.

There's more. Stephen Hayes's book, The Connection, remains required reading. But these are just the questions; the answers ?- if someone will just investigate the questions rather than pretending there's "nothing whatsoever" there ?- will provide more still.

So Gergen, Reid, the Times, and the rest are "offended" at the president's reminding us of 9/11? The rest of us should be offended, too. Offended at the "nothing whatsoever" crowd's inexplicable lack of curiosity about these ties, and about the answers to these questions.

Just tell us one thing: Do you have any good answer to what Ahmed Hikmat Shakir was doing with the 9/11 hijackers in Kuala Lampur? Can you explain it?

If not, why aren't you moving heaven and earth to find out the answer?
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