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The Democrats Gloat Thread

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 07:05 am
Ticomaya wrote:
Yeah, nimh, it's done all the time. That is an unfortunate fact. However, I'm not sure why you have concluded I condone the practice.

No, not condoned - just implied, basically, that it was normal, commonplace. (Kinda like how dlowan didnt condone Clinton's lying to the jury, but implied that lying about such a thing was normal, or commonplace enough.)

Anyway, re: "done all the time", it's not how I got my job. In fact, I dont know anyone who got their job that way. I guess I move around in the wrong circles.

Guess its all about what you're willing to shrug off as normal or standard practice, even if you formally disapprove (wasnt that pretty much the point you were bashing dlowan over the head with?). I remember thinking this case was spectacular enough, myself.

But hey, perhaps we live in different worlds. I cant vouch for Hungarian politics, but apart from the spectacle of onrolling little scandals in the far-right List Pim Fortuyn in 2002-03 (when, in an unprecedented upheaval, they catapulted into 26 parliament seats without any cadre or national party organisation to speak of), I cant remember any similar scandal in Dutch politics in recent decades.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 07:43 am
nimh wrote:
test


Test successful.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 08:20 am
finn wrote
Quote:
If you are judging this shift by when liberal commentators on FOX returned to form, it was well before the last little while.

You may well have a much better perspective on Fox. I have really watched it very little. Lately, I've been studying it more (along with townhall, newsmax, etc) out of curiosity on these media phenomena.

Quote:
Frankly, I don't really see that much of a change in the Media coverage of Bush & Co. What has changed, in the last little while, is the increased number and compressed frequency of stories which can be said to put the Administration on the defensive: Hurricane Katrina, Scooter Libby, Harriet Miers. All of these stories developed on the backdrop of the overwhelmingly negative coverage of the Iraq war.

I'm not sure there is really a blood in the water effect at play. I do think that reporters and commentators cannot help but frame each new, albeit minor, story within the context of Bush's aggregate of problems. To some extent I think this fuels the general sense and reality of an Administration on the skids.

Yes. Surely, in part, what is going on here is the "lame duck" problem. The formidable 'on message' and loyalty to the guy up top (and his policies) discipline would naturally be expected to suffer as 2006 and 2008 near.

The war is clearly the underlying drag on the administration's popularity. But of course, this administration and no one else has to stand responsible for how incompetently it has been managed. Likewise the other problems Bush et al face now...Plame/Libby, secret torture prisons, revelations of deceits re runup to war, DeLay/Abramoff corruption, crony appointments, the arrogance withholding so much operational information from the people who put the government there, etc...each of these represent violations of fundamental social agreements held broadly in American society regarding how government ought to behave. The surprise is how long it has taken for the majority of citizens to conclude that this administration is not trustworthy. Katrina was bad luck, but bad luck that pointed to something else as well (besides the crony thing), to the persistent reality of race and poverty problems AND with that, to a particularly bankrupt consequence of the conservative program...a lack of compassion. Miers was an internal fight among conservative groups with different goals/ideologies and its only real significance was that it highlighted the decline in message unity and it embarrassed Bush personally through working against the PR campaign to always portray him as the strong leader who everyone deferred to.

So, there's a snowball effect in play as you suggest. As to my blood-in-water or media-moves-as-pack thesis, keep watch over the next while and see if the notion is helpful. Better yet, pick up Didion's book Political Fictions. It's quite extraordinary. And she studies Dems as acutely as Republicans.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 08:28 am
dlowan wrote:
This will sound odd, but I did not know you were a website manager.

My full title is "website manager/researcher", I believe ...

This be a new job though, only since May, so that may have something to do with not knowing it ;-)
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 08:35 am
To paraphrase Chalabi "Bush problems are an urban myth"
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 08:37 am
nimh wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
I'd say it was "odd" for a social worker -- or whatever the hell you do for a living

From what I gathered so far from dlowan's posts on this board, she's a therapist who counsels abused / sexually abused minors. (?)

Now perhaps it's me, but to me that's kind of in a different category than lawyering or website managering, to just pick up on our two respective professions.


Different category in what respect? Dlowan doesn't know what I do for a living, other than knowing I'm a lawyer, and she certainly does not appear to let that stop her from denigrating my profession whenever it strikes her fancy. Apparently you think it's acceptable for her, but take offense when turnabout occurs. Or perhaps you think lawyers are openly susceptible to denigrating comments, and we should just accept them?

nimh wrote:
Especially since, you gotta admit, you do really often act like what's considered typical lawyery - just like someone would hit a bit of a bull's eye when pointing out my webnerd obsessiveness on stats and details and such.

But - up to your standards of decency whether you want to pursue this line of denigrating her work, I suppose.


And although you do tend to post a lot of statistics and such, I do not believe I've suggested you are any sort of a "webnerd," or applied a denigrating characterization of that practice.

And even if I engage in "what's considered typical lawyery" -- whatever that might be -- does that grant some sort of license to tie back whatever my response is to my profession? I mean, I could name a host of posters at this site who I could characterize as having "engaged in what might be considered 'typical lawyery'." I suppose the nature of debate is particularly well-lined up with the profession of an attorney - over say a website manager, for instance. Yet I don't see anyone else being accused of "acting like a lawyer." Or for that matter having their profession attacked on the basis of their posts on this board.

So as far as the "standards of decency" being employed by the respective members of this board in denigrating others' professions when engaged in debate, I would point you first at dlowan, at least in this instance, and suggest my response was merely given in measured response.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 08:38 am
Regarding the "Liberal Media Bias" trope, that's definitely not one notion that's currently shared in the mainstream of America...

Quote:
Americans Review Press Coverage of White House

Most Americans believe their country's media outlets are approaching the federal administration in the correct manner, according to a poll by Princeton Survey Research Associates for the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press. [..]

Polling Data

In your opinion, are the news organizations you are familiar with being fair or unfair to the Bush administration?

Fair
50% Nov. 2005
62% Jul. 2003

Unfair
31% Nov. 2005
24% Jul. 2003

Not sure / Refused
19% Nov. 2005
14% Jul. 2003

Do you think the press has been too critical of the Bush Administration policies and performance so far, not critical enough or do you think that the press has handled this about right?

Too critical
32% Nov. 2005
25% Jul. 2003

About right
34% Nov. 2005
48% Jul. 2003

Not critical enough
28% Nov. 2005
23% Jul. 2003

Not sure / Refused
6% Nov. 2005
4% Jul. 2003

Source: Princeton Survey Research Associates / Pew Research Center for the People and the Press
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 08:39 am
Did I use the word "trope" right, there?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 08:40 am
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
I asked Just Wonders a simple question and he disappears. Odd.


Well, it was just a minor error in fact on the part of Just Wonders. But considering his propensity to attempt to correct me at every opportunity, one would think that he would be man enough to admit he misspoke.


Have you ever been man enough to admit you misspoke?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 08:40 am
nimh wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Yeah, nimh, it's done all the time. That is an unfortunate fact. However, I'm not sure why you have concluded I condone the practice.

No, not condoned - just implied, basically, that it was normal, commonplace. (Kinda like how dlowan didnt condone Clinton's lying to the jury, but implied that lying about such a thing was normal, or commonplace enough.)


Difference being that in pointing out that it is commonplace, I've not defended the practice. Unless you believe pointing out that it's normal and commonplace is somehow the equivalent of defending?

Quote:
Anyway, re: "done all the time", it's not how I got my job. In fact, I dont know anyone who got their job that way. I guess I move around in the wrong circles.


Not how I got my job either. Does that mean it's not commonplace?

Quote:
Guess its all about what you're willing to shrug off as normal or standard practice, even if you formally disapprove (wasnt that pretty much the point you were bashing dlowan over the head with?). I remember thinking this case was spectacular enough, myself.


No, that wasn't the point I was bashing over dlowan's head. I was bashing her about her remark that she would defend Bush if he lied about sex.

Quote:
But hey, perhaps we live in different worlds. I cant vouch for Hungarian politics, but apart from the spectacle of onrolling little scandals in the far-right List Pim Fortuyn in 2002-03 (when, in an unprecedented upheaval, they catapulted into 26 parliament seats without any cadre or national party organisation to speak of), I cant remember any similar scandal in Dutch politics in recent decades.


Congratulations.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 08:45 am
nimh wrote:
Did I use the word "trope" right, there?


Yes. Did you know you can edit your last post until a subsequent post is made?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 09:09 am
Ticomaya wrote:
nimh wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
I'd say it was "odd" for a social worker -- or whatever the hell you do for a living

From what I gathered so far from dlowan's posts on this board, she's a therapist who counsels abused / sexually abused minors. (?)

Now perhaps it's me, but to me that's kind of in a different category than lawyering or website managering, to just pick up on our two respective professions.

Different category in what respect?

Different as in how ER nurses are different from accountants, or how fire fighters are different from account managers, or how ghetto teachers are different from website managers.

If you dont get it you dont get it, I guess.

(Arnold didnt either, interestingly enough. What kind of governor picks fights with his state's nurses, fire fighters, teachers and policemen?)
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 09:12 am
nimh wrote:
Did I use the word "trope" right, there?


nimh

I think not. It looks like you want a word that means something like "misapprehension" or "myth" or "fallacy", though perhaps with the added sense that purposeful deceit is in play?

The normal use of "trope" is figure of speech or play on words.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 09:13 am
nimh wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
nimh wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
I'd say it was "odd" for a social worker -- or whatever the hell you do for a living

From what I gathered so far from dlowan's posts on this board, she's a therapist who counsels abused / sexually abused minors. (?)

Now perhaps it's me, but to me that's kind of in a different category than lawyering or website managering, to just pick up on our two respective professions.

Different category in what respect?

Different as in how ER nurses are different from accountants, or how fire fighters are different from account managers, or how ghetto teachers are different from website managers.

If you dont get it you dont get it, I guess.

(Arnold didnt either, interestingly enough. What kind of governor picks fights with his state's nurses, fire fighters, teachers and policemen?)


Oh. So your point is therapists/social workers are different from lawyers and website managers, nurses are different from accountants, and fire fighters are different from account managers? I can agree with that.

Don't really understand why you were making that point, but I believe it's accurate.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 09:13 am
nimh wrote:
dlowan wrote:

My full title is "website manager/researcher", I believe ...


Not really, Web Manager / Researcher it is :wink:
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 09:14 am
LOL....well, that will teach you to ask native speakers
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 09:15 am
blatham wrote:
nimh wrote:
Did I use the word "trope" right, there?


nimh

I think not. It looks like you want a word that means something like "misapprehension" or "myth" or "fallacy", though perhaps with the added sense that purposeful deceit is in play?

The normal use of "trope" is figure of speech or play on words.


Ahh. I didn't see the comma. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 10:21 am
Ticomaya wrote:
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
I asked Just Wonders a simple question and he disappears. Odd.


Well, it was just a minor error in fact on the part of Just Wonders. But considering his propensity to attempt to correct me at every opportunity, one would think that he would be man enough to admit he misspoke.


Have you ever been man enough to admit you misspoke?


Good question, but I'm still wondering why someone would constantly change usernames.

Harper/Chrissee/Twin wrote:

Quote:
Still fixated I see. The accusations are false. I borrowed chrissee's avatar, I don't know who this Harper character is.


Changing usernames is obviously allowed on AK2, I just don't know why someone would deny doing so.

The "fixated" retort was also a favorite of Harper's...and Chrisee's :wink:
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 10:54 am
JustWonders wrote:
Changing usernames is obviously allowed on AK2, I just don't know why someone would deny doing so.


Yes, it is:

Craven de Kere wrote:
The username can only be changed by an administrator. Use the contact form.


see: Changing username
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 10:55 am
On the other hand, since all names you mentioned, still are in the member list, no-one changed a username here.
0 Replies
 
 

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