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The Democrats Gloat Thread

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 01:17 pm
Bingo ... hiring someone in a prominent enough position who is totally unqualified for it, but later turns out to be your secret lover ... not good.

Not world-shocking - but not good.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 01:17 pm
blatham wrote:
Quote:
and the left is going to have to do a lot more to try and fulfill their goal of winning back the House and the Senate.


That's true, given the tendency of incumbents to be re-elected. But on the other hand, it is hard to imagine a situation less favorable to the Republicans than what we see presently. What more can go wrong that isn't going wrong now? The downtrends aren't blips, they are long term.


It was just a city council election, but the two Republican incumbents were solidly defeated here yesterday by percentages of 65/35 and 62/38.

From one of the defeated incumbants, Kathleen Dunbar.

"Dunbar said the Democrats' overwhelming edge in voter registration allowed them to carry the day. Unlike in past contests, she said, Tucsonans voted along party lines on Tuesday. She also said Democrats were motivated by strong feelings against President Bush and the war in Iraq."

http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/dailystar/101704
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 01:45 pm
nimh wrote:
Bingo ... hiring someone in a prominent enough position who is totally unqualified for it, but later turns out to be your secret lover ... not good.

Not world-shocking - but not good.


Right. Democrat politicians hire unqualified people too. In fact, I imagine just about every politician does. Not earth-shattering ... and not the reason he gave for resigning, but okay.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 04:43 pm
mesquite wrote:
blatham wrote:
Quote:
and the left is going to have to do a lot more to try and fulfill their goal of winning back the House and the Senate.


That's true, given the tendency of incumbents to be re-elected. But on the other hand, it is hard to imagine a situation less favorable to the Republicans than what we see presently. What more can go wrong that isn't going wrong now? The downtrends aren't blips, they are long term.


It was just a city council election, but the two Republican incumbents were solidly defeated here yesterday by percentages of 65/35 and 62/38.

From one of the defeated incumbants, Kathleen Dunbar.

"Dunbar said the Democrats' overwhelming edge in voter registration allowed them to carry the day. Unlike in past contests, she said, Tucsonans voted along party lines on Tuesday. She also said Democrats were motivated by strong feelings against President Bush and the war in Iraq."

http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/dailystar/101704


Mesquite

I think Dunbar's idea misses something important which Republican strategists will be trying to figure how to handle. Poll trends (genernal polls over the last year or two) strongly suggest that Dems can probably count on a third factor above a motivated base and registration/get out the vote organization - a broad swing in the independent vote over to dem candidates and policies.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 05:12 pm
You probably shouldn't overlook the fact that when she was elected in 2001, Dunbar was the first Republican in 30 years elected to the Tucson City Council from that particular Ward.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 06:02 pm
Tico,

They represent a ward, but they are elected city wide.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 06:20 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
Right. Democrat politicians hire unqualified people too. In fact, I imagine just about every politician does. Not earth-shattering ... and not the reason he gave for resigning, but okay.

Hiring totally unqualified people because you are personally involved with them, because you feel you owe them a favour, yeah, pretty bad. Nepotism is what its called I believe - a form of corruption. A particularly blatant case of it.

Now I know that this is pretty much Bush's standard mode of operation, exchanging posts for political favours regardless of qualifications ("Arabian horses you say?"), so I can see why you would shrug it off, but weren't you posturing about moral relativism here recently? "It doesn't matter whether the lie is big or small -- a lie is a lie is a lie" and all?

And in this particular case, the guy being a lover of his when he was still in the closet, it made him potentially blackmailable and everything.

Yeah, "not the reason he gave". Duh.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 07:03 pm
Yeah, nimh, it's done all the time. That is an unfortunate fact. However, I'm not sure why you have concluded I condone the practice.


(Nepotism is when you grant favor to a family member.)
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 01:00 am
Not nepotism, cronyism

Sorry.

Equally bad
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 07:11 am
I continue to be amazed at the shift in political discourse in the media over just the last little while. Even Colmes (Hannity and Colmes, Fox) seems to have gained testicles, though he's still allowed only teeny little places to put them.

How and why the conglomerate consciousness of American news media settles where it does seems nearly mystical. As I've mentioned before, Joan Didion writes in Political Fictions (why haven't more people read this wonderful book?) about this phenomenon. If you've ever seen that high-speed film of maggots moving through a rodent carcass or been in a mob situation, you'll get the idea.

Three, four or five months ago, news topics and the general tone of deference to administration views and talking points remained much as it had been since Bush took office - much to the dismay of many of us. The incredibly competent Republican media apparatus was still working quite effectively and confidently, and newsrooms were generally falling into line with an administration "narrative".

In retrospect, we can make out the cracks in the plaster, but at the time, it seemed as if those cracks might just disappear the way so many earlier ones had. It looked, for just one example, like the Downing Street memos might just be another depressing instance of history or reality 'disappeared' like Jimmy Hoffa's remains under a barrage of spin and diversion.

How abruptly the tables have turned is in itself absolutely mesmerizing. Now, the administration and its PR machine are in constant defense, and they are stumbling each day. They are overwhelmed with the number of defences they have to mount and with the real challenge of defending against them (eg, the recent Brownie 'fashion' emails).

There is definitely something of "in for the kill" in the dynamics here as regards the medias' choices of stories and tone with which those stories are covered. News has developed here in the tabloid/corporate direction and blood in the water means feasting on ratings and advertiser dollars and happy corporate execs and perhaps even shareholders. It's the same phenomenon which led to the daily coverage by the news media of Ken Starr 'revelations'.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 08:23 am
Ticomaya wrote:
I'd say it was "odd" for a social worker -- or whatever the hell you do for a living

From what I gathered so far from dlowan's posts on this board, she's a therapist who counsels abused / sexually abused minors. (?)

Now perhaps it's me, but to me that's kind of in a different category than lawyering or website managering, to just pick up on our two respective professions.

Especially since, you gotta admit, you do really often act like what's considered typical lawyery - just like someone would hit a bit of a bull's eye when pointing out my webnerd obsessiveness on stats and details and such.

But - up to your standards of decency whether you want to pursue this line of denigrating her work, I suppose.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 08:24 am
Ticomaya wrote:
I'd say it was "odd" for a social worker -- or whatever the hell you do for a living

From what I gathered so far from dlowan's posts on this board, she's a therapist who counsels abused / sexually abused minors. (?)

Now perhaps it's me, but to me that's kind of in a different category than lawyering or website managering, to just pick up on our two respective professions.

Especially since, you gotta admit, you do really often act like what's considered typical lawyery - just like someone would hit a bit of a bull's eye when pointing out my webnerd obsessiveness on stats and details and such.

But - up to your standards of decency whether you want to pursue this line of denigrating her work, I suppose.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 08:24 am
Ticomaya wrote:
I'd say it was "odd" for a social worker -- or whatever the hell you do for a living

From what I gathered so far from dlowan's posts on this board, she's a therapist who counsels abused / sexually abused minors. (?)

Now perhaps it's me, but to me that's kind of in a different category than lawyering or website managering, to just pick up on our two respective professions.

Especially since, you gotta admit, you do really often act like what's considered typical lawyery - just like someone would hit a bit of a bull's eye when pointing out my webnerd obsessiveness on stats and details and such.

But - up to your standards of decency whether you want to pursue this line of denigrating her work, I suppose.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 08:25 am
blatham wrote:
I continue to be amazed at the shift in political discourse in the media over just the last little while. Even Colmes (Hannity and Colmes, Fox) seems to have gained testicles, though he's still allowed only teeny little places to put them.


If you are judging this shift by when liberal commentators on FOX returned to form, it was well before the last little while.

I didn't watch much of FOX before 9/11 and when I first tuned in to Hannity and Colmes I was impressed with the demeanor and comments of Colmes (although frightened by his face), and quickly irritated by Hannity.

Similarly, I had nothing but high regard for Juan Williams (a regular on the FOX Sunday show). I was well acquainted with Williams as a regular listener of NPR.

At some point though there was a marked change in their on-screen personaes as both clearly evidenced a strong leftward slant and began to regularly recite Democratic Party talking points.

I attributed the change to three possible causes:

1) The sobering effect of 9/11 eventually wore off
2) They were under tremendous pressure from the Liberal friends and associates to not allow the Conservative comments of Hannity and Hume to go unchallenged
3) Management at FOX encouraged them to fire up their rhetoric to spice up the shows and provide evidence of fairness and balance

It was probably a mix of all three, but I remain struck by the fact that the Juan Williams on NPR has not changed in the way the Juan Williams on FOX has.

blatham wrote:
How abruptly the tables have turned is in itself absolutely mesmerizing. Now, the administration and its PR machine are in constant defense, and they are stumbling each day. They are overwhelmed with the number of defences they have to mount and with the real challenge of defending against them (eg, the recent Brownie 'fashion' emails).

There is definitely something of "in for the kill" in the dynamics here as regards the medias' choices of stories and tone with which those stories are covered. News has developed here in the tabloid/corporate direction and blood in the water means feasting on ratings and advertiser dollars and happy corporate execs and perhaps even shareholders. It's the same phenomenon which led to the daily coverage by the news media of Ken Starr 'revelations'.


Having long ago (perhaps even in utero) decided the Bush Administration was a menace, it's not surprising that you have found the Media to be insufficiently rapid in their editorial policies towards it.

Obviously, those of us on the Right never really shared this view.

It would seem to a matter where perspective strongly influences one's view.

Frankly, I don't really see that much of a change in the Media coverage of Bush & Co. What has changed, in the last little while, is the increased number and compressed frequency of stories which can be said to put the Administration on the defensive: Hurricane Katrina, Scooter Libby, Harriet Miers. All of these stories developed on the backdrop of the overwhelmingly negative coverage of the Iraq war.

I'm not sure there is really a blood in the water effect at play. I do think that reporters and commentators cannot help but frame each new, albeit minor, story within the context of Bush's aggregate of problems. To some extent I think this fuels the general sense and reality of an Administration on the skids.

Irrespective of whatever one's political views may be and what party holds the White House this does seem to be a pattern for two term presidents. Washington is a jungle and any sign of weakness engenders aggressive attention.

It is remarkable how quickly Bush seems to be slipping into lame duck status. This may be unique to his presidency, but it may also be evidence of the overall compression of political cycles - a trend, by the way, which extends well beyond politics.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 08:28 am
blatham wrote:
I continue to be amazed at the shift in political discourse in the media over just the last little while. Even Colmes (Hannity and Colmes, Fox) seems to have gained testicles, though he's still allowed only teeny little places to put them.


If you are judging this shift by when liberal commentators on FOX returned to form, it was well before the last little while.

I didn't watch much of FOX before 9/11 and when I first tuned in to Hannity and Colmes I was impressed with the demeanor and comments of Colmes (although frightened by his face), and quickly irritated by Hannity.

Similarly, I had nothing but high regard for Juan Williams (a regular on the FOX Sunday show). I was well acquainted with Williams as a regular listener of NPR.

At some point though there was a marked change in their on-screen personaes as both clearly evidenced a strong leftward slant and began to regularly recite Democratic Party talking points.

I attributed the change to three possible causes:

1) The sobering effect of 9/11 eventually wore off
2) They were under tremendous pressure from the Liberal friends and associates to not allow the Conservative comments of Hannity and Hume to go unchallenged
3) Management at FOX encouraged them to fire up their rhetoric to spice up the shows and provide evidence of fairness and balance

It was probably a mix of all three, but I remain struck by the fact that the Juan Williams on NPR has not changed in the way the Juan Williams on FOX has.

blatham wrote:
How abruptly the tables have turned is in itself absolutely mesmerizing. Now, the administration and its PR machine are in constant defense, and they are stumbling each day. They are overwhelmed with the number of defences they have to mount and with the real challenge of defending against them (eg, the recent Brownie 'fashion' emails).

There is definitely something of "in for the kill" in the dynamics here as regards the medias' choices of stories and tone with which those stories are covered. News has developed here in the tabloid/corporate direction and blood in the water means feasting on ratings and advertiser dollars and happy corporate execs and perhaps even shareholders. It's the same phenomenon which led to the daily coverage by the news media of Ken Starr 'revelations'.


Having long ago (perhaps even in utero) decided the Bush Administration was a menace, it's not surprising that you have found the Media to be insufficiently rapid in their editorial policies towards it.

Obviously, those of us on the Right never really shared this view.

It would seem to a matter where perspective strongly influences one's view.

Frankly, I don't really see that much of a change in the Media coverage of Bush & Co. What has changed, in the last little while, is the increased number and compressed frequency of stories which can be said to put the Administration on the defensive: Hurricane Katrina, Scooter Libby, Harriet Miers. All of these stories developed on the backdrop of the overwhelmingly negative coverage of the Iraq war.

I'm not sure there is really a blood in the water effect at play. I do think that reporters and commentators cannot help but frame each new, albeit minor, story within the context of Bush's aggregate of problems. To some extent I think this fuels the general sense and reality of an Administration on the skids.

Irrespective of whatever one's political views may be and what party holds the White House this does seem to be a pattern for two term presidents. Washington is a jungle and any sign of weakness engenders aggressive attention.

It is remarkable how quickly Bush seems to be slipping into lame duck status. This may be unique to his presidency, but it may also be evidence of the overall compression of political cycles - a trend, by the way, which extends well beyond politics.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 08:39 am
Foxfyre wrote:
No real surprise that the initiatives in California lost though I had hoped the conservatives had gained more of a foothold there. I was surprised that the Republican won in New York.

Foxfyre, were you really surprised that Bloomberg won in New York?

I mean, apparently Bloomberg had a lead in the last-week opinion polls of up to 38% - that was what he had in the Quinnipiac one on Monday (a 38% lead!). He was so confident of victory, he went golfing the day before the elections.

Foxfyre wrote:
Conservative issues held on in Texas and Maine.

All in all a mixed bag of wins and losses, but the Democrats have won the right to gloat a bit.

The only vote I heard about in Maine was the approval of a referendum on guaranteeing the rights of gay men and lesbians. Is that the conservative issue you're referring to?

Meanwhile, I still can't believe my eyes when I read snippets like this:

The New York Times wrote:
A new poll by the Pew Research Center, released on Tuesday, showed Mr. Bush with an approval rating [..] among independents [that] had dropped to 29 percent, from 47 percent in January

29 percent approval among Independents!!! Shocked
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 09:04 am
test
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 10:19 am
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
I asked Just Wonders a simple question and he disappears. Odd.


Well, it was just a minor error in fact on the part of Just Wonders. But considering his propensity to attempt to correct me at every opportunity, one would think that he would be man enough to admit he misspoke.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 04:47 pm
Oy, what a mess.

All the double & triple posts I mean.

A2K had some problems today I think...
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 05:09 am
nimh wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
I'd say it was "odd" for a social worker -- or whatever the hell you do for a living

From what I gathered so far from dlowan's posts on this board, she's a therapist who counsels abused / sexually abused minors. (?)

Now perhaps it's me, but to me that's kind of in a different category than lawyering or website managering, to just pick up on our two respective professions.

Especially since, you gotta admit, you do really often act like what's considered typical lawyery - just like someone would hit a bit of a bull's eye when pointing out my webnerd obsessiveness on stats and details and such.

But - up to your standards of decency whether you want to pursue this line of denigrating her work, I suppose.



Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Last effect I would ever find Tico having on me is causing me to feel denigrated Nimh, fear not.



This will sound odd, but I did not know you were a website manager.
0 Replies
 
 

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