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Schiavo Autopsy Shows No Sign of Abuse

 
 
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 09:23 am
Since there have been several threads around about the Schiavo case, I'm posting this in a one:

Quote:
Schiavo Autopsy Shows No Sign of Abuse

By MITCH STACY
The Associated Press
Wednesday, June 15, 2005

LARGO, Fla. -- Terri Schiavo did not suffer any trauma prior to her 1990 collapse and her brain was about half of normal size when she died, according to results released Wednesday of an autopsy conducted on the severely brain-damaged woman.

Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Jon Thogmartin concluded that there was no evidence of strangulation or other trauma leading to her collapse. He also said she did not appear to have suffered a heart attack.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 09:25 am
Sorry Debra.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 09:34 am
Quote:
Autopsy: No Trauma to Schiavo

Provided By: The Associated Press
Last Modified: 6/15/2005 11:29:11 AM

By MITCH STACY
Associated Press


AP) -- Terri Schiavo did not suffer any trauma prior to her 1990 collapse and her brain was about half of normal size when she died, according to results released Wednesday of an autopsy conducted on the severely brain-damaged woman.

Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Jon Thogmartin concluded that there was no evidence of strangulation or other trauma leading to her collapse. He also said she did not appear to have suffered a heart attack and there was no evidence that she was given harmful drugs or other substances prior to her death.

Autopsy results on the 41-year-old brain damaged woman were made public Wednesday, more than two months after Schiavo's death ended an internationally watched right-to-die battle that engulfed the courts, Congress and the White House and divided the country.

She died from dehydration, he said.

He said she would not have been able to eat or drink if she had been given food by mouth as her parents' requested.

"Removal of her feeding tube would have resulted in her death whether she was fed or hydrated by mouth or not," Thogmartin told reporters.

Thogmartin said that Schiavo's brain was about half of its expected size when she died March 31 in a Pinellas Park hospice, 13 days after her feeding tube was removed.

"The brain weighed 615 grams, roughly half of the expected weight of a human brain. ... This damage was irreversible, and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons."


(Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 03:22 pm
Quote:
June 15, 2005
Schiavo's Brain Was Severely Deteriorated, Autopsy Says

By TIMOTHY WILLIAMS

An autopsy on Terri Schiavo, the severely brain damaged woman whose death sparked an intense debate over a person's right-to-die, showed that her brain was severely "atrophied," weighed less than half of what it should have, and that no treatment could have reversed the damage.

During a televised news conference in Largo, Fla., the Piniellas-Pasco Medical Examiner, Jon Thogmartin, also said the autopsy showed that Ms. Schiavo's condition was "consistent" with a person in a persistent vegetative state. That point had become a key issue in the debate over whether to prolong Ms. Schiavo's life and whether she had a chance to recover normal brain function.

Dr. Thogmartin said that recovery was not possible because of the massive brain damage that occurred after Ms. Schiavo collapsed in 1990. Her brain weighed 615 grams at the time of her death on March 31.

"This damage was irreversible," said Dr. Thogmartin. "No amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons."

Dr. Thogmartin said Ms. Schiavo technically died of "marked dehydration" - not starvation - after her feeding tube was removed.

But he said the underlying mystery at the heart of her case - why she suddenly collapsed 15 years ago -- could not be answered. He said he considered the manner of her death to be "undetermined."

Instead, the medical examiner discussed some factors that did not appear to lead to Ms. Schiavo's illness.

The autopsy, for instance, showed that physical abuse or poison did not play a role in her collapse , he said. Ms. Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, had accused their daughter's husband, Michael Schiavo, of abusing her, which he has steadfastly denied. Dr. Thogmartin also said there was no evidence she had had an eating disorder before she collapsed, although a disorder was widely suspected because she had diminished levels of potassium in her blood.

And despite a widely televised video that appeared to show Ms. Schiavo responding to voices and other movement in her room, the autopsy said that Ms. Schiavo was blind in her final days. The medical examiner said she would not have been able to eat or drink had she been fed by mouth, as her parents had requested. The autopsy found no evidence that she suffered a heart attack, or that she had been given harmful drugs that may have accelerated her death.

Asked about persistent vegetative state, Dr. Stephen Milton, a neuropathology expert who joined Dr. Thogmartin at the news conference, said that term referred to a clinical diagnosis, not a pathological diagnosis. But, he said, "There was nothing in the autopsy that is inconsistent with persistent vegetative state."

The lawyer for the Schindlers said at a news conference today that the parents continue to believe their daughter was not in a persistent vegetative state and thus should not have had her feeding tube removed.

"If Teri Schiavo had wanted to die, she had a lot of opportunities to die," said the lawyer, David Gibbs III.

Ms. Schiavo's parents sought the autopsy to determine the cause of Ms. Schiavo's mysterious collapse the night of Feb. 25, 1990. She had suffered extensive brain damage when her heart stopped beating and she lacked a pulse for more than one hour by the time emergency medical personnel arrived.

After her collapse, she had been able to breathe on her own and had periods of wakefulness, but most doctors agreed that Ms. Schiavo was in a "persistent vegetative state" and incapable of thought or emotion. Her parents however, argued that their daughter was minimally conscious and could recover through an intensive therapeutic regimen. The question of whether Ms. Schiavo should have been allowed to die, as her husband said she wanted, or be turned over to the care of her parents, who wanted to keep her alive, went on for seven years, and reached the Vatican, the White House, Congress and various state and federal courts, before finally reaching the Supreme Court, which declined to hear her case.

Her death on the last day of March came 13 days after a feeding tube that was keeping her alive had been removed. Her husband had sought the removal of the tube over the objection of the Schindlers.

At various times, the Schindlers accused Mr. Schiavo of physically abusing his wife, and suggested that poisoning or strangulation may have led to her collapse. Mr. Schiavo has repeatedly denied abusing his wife, and the medical examiner said several times today that there was no evidence of trauma consistent with physical abuse before her collapse.

At one point during the drawn-out dispute, President Bush returned to the White House from a Texas vacation late on a Sunday night solely to sign a law that allowed Ms. Schiavo's parents to seek a federal court review of the facts of the case. He praised Congress for "voting to give Terry Schiavo's parents another opportunity to save their daughter's life."

Ms. Schiavo's husband and parents, once close, battled over her fate since 1998, when Mr. Schiavo asked a state court's permission to remove life support.

Courts also found credible Mr. Schiavo's testimony that his wife, who left no written directive, had said on several occasions that she would not want life-prolonging measures to be used for her.

Mr. Schiavo's lawyer, George Felos, said today that his client was "pleased to hear the results" of the autopsy because it confirmed many of the points Mr. Schiavo has argued for several years. Mr. Felos also said that Mr. Schiavo had decided to release autopsy photos of his wife's brain in order to dispel any notion that she could have recovered.

He feels it is important to show "what is so apparent from these photographs," said Mr. Felos.
Source

link to Autopsy Report (PDF file)

Terri Schiavo Case: online collection of legal issues involving healthcare directives, death, and dying
0 Replies
 
bbaptiste
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 05:03 pm
For those who have not seen this, Joan Didion's recent piece on Terry
Schiavo for the New York Review of Books thoughtfully transcends the
standard liberal as well as conservative arguments on the matter. Worth
a look, even if you ultimately disagree. Not a quick read, however.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/18050
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 05:15 pm
I read that, bb, and I agree. It made me think a bit...
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 06:13 pm
Interesting link, Mr. B.

Given the autopsy results, it's a bit difficult to go with the "healthy woman with a damaged brain" assessment provided by Ms. Didion.

Lots to think about.

On the upside, the case has made a lot of people deal with the 'living will' issue.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2005 03:27 pm
bbaptiste--

Thank you so much for that article. I think anybody with an opinion about the case should read it.

Things aren't always as they seem, and as Didion reported, the brain is not a finite mass. We may have named it's parts and feel confident in asserting what each part does--but we are fooling ourselves to think medical science has finished the research, and have neatly boxed away all there is to know about the human brain.

That alone is the reason many didn't want her starved. You can't really know what is going on with someone of diminished ability.

Anyway. Thanks.
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bbaptiste
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2005 05:42 pm
It's a tough call, either way. I think the shameful behavior of politicians and interests groups who hopped on this issue to make political hay was as tacky a move as I've ever seen.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2005 05:58 pm
I was a little repulsed by the memos circulated, advocating using the case as a political tool, as well. But, I know that at least some of the people who opposed her death did so for valid reasons, as did some who advocated it.

What made me angry was the inability or refusal, for some with one opinion to give the benefit of the doubt that those with the other opinion came about it wanting the best thing for Shiavo.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2005 06:06 pm
Senator Frist took the Senate floor to decree that Terry Schiavo was not in a "persistent vegetative state" because he had reviewed family home videotapes of her condition. Although court-approved neurologists diagnosed Terry Schiavo as lacking purposeful cognitive function and being in the "PVS" state, for Dr. Frist, those physicians relied on "wrong" and "incomplete data."
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2005 06:30 pm
If I'm not mistaken, a diagnosis of PVS rules out the ability to track an object with your eyes.

She clearly did that. She clearly responded to at least two people that I saw, laughing at a joke. Did she 'get' the joke; I don't think so. Did she respond to something--her father's smile, his tone, ... undeniably.

From what I read, these things are impossible for people in PVS.

Frist could have been right. I wouldn't hazard a guess on his motive, but he could have been right.

No one can, with absolute certainty, say he was wrong. And that, to me, is good enough reason to 'do no harm'.
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 04:24 pm
This videotape people are talking about-is this available to the public, or are we going on people's word that she was tracking something with her eyes?
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 04:30 pm
Out of all the videos taken of her, they pick out a few seconds showing blind eyes apparently following something. They always show only the few seconds and no other insatnces.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 04:52 pm
More BS from the right.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 04:54 pm
(And they will unsuccessfully rationalize anything until they turn blue).
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 04:59 pm
Don't you need some sort of brain function to track something with your eyes, or laugh at a joke, or to respond to a general sense of merriment even if you don't understand the joke?

Hasn't it been proven that there was no brain function?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 05:09 pm
Lash wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, a diagnosis of PVS rules out the ability to track an object with your eyes.

She clearly did that. She clearly responded to at least two people that I saw, laughing at a joke. Did she 'get' the joke; I don't think so. Did she respond to something--her father's smile, his tone, ... undeniably.

From what I read, these things are impossible for people in PVS.

Frist could have been right. I wouldn't hazard a guess on his motive, but he could have been right.

No one can, with absolute certainty, say he was wrong. And that, to me, is good enough reason to 'do no harm'.


LOL.. this has to be the biggest bunch of crapola I have seen yet..

"He COULD have been right" comes the plaintive cry of the brain washed.... Not according to known medical science he could NOT have been. For God's sake Lash, stop defending such insanity.

The medical tests conducted by the Drs there showed PRECISELY what the autopsy did. No cognitive brain function and an atrophied brain. There is no "He could have been right". There is NO WAY he could have been right based on the evidence then and now.

The video tape is an edited sham. Random head movements and facial tics that have been edited down to show some that just happen to occur at times appropriate to show a supposed response. I could edit a tape of me throwing a pair of dice and calling for the number 7 that would prove that I can control dice because the 7 comes up when I call for it. It would be as valid as the Schiavo tape. 4 hours edited down to 10 minutes.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 05:31 pm
Some people will follow the party rhetoric no matter what proof there is. After all, Frist is a doctor (really a quack who can diagnose from a short tape, but who's quibbling?)
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 06:27 pm
CI-- That's just bullshit. If you want to assail my opinion, that's fine. But I don't say ANYTHING because it is the majority opinion in my political party. I am a member of my political party because they more often reach MY opinion.

But, there were liberals that had a problem with what happened to Schiavo, as well.

parados-- You may be under the impression that you know all there is to know re this case and what the brain is capable of-- Congratulations. I realize there is a great deal about the human brain and the way it works that is unknown. I'm just not confident enough to end someone's life, based on incomplete information.
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