Schiavo Autopsy Shows No Sign of Abuse

Lash wrote:

I would have respected her right to die. She didn't have a living will.

A Living Will is a comparatively new development in the past few years, or decades. Up until that time, the next-of-kin made the decision. That is why you see the expression, "Notify the next-of-kin" when death or grave danger is present.

When a Living Will is not present-as it usually is not-the case is not thrown up in the air, as you would have us believe. It simply reverts to the traditon-the next-of-kin makes the call. Simple as that.

Lash wrote:

I respected her right to make that decision, not someone else's to make that decision for her.

In point of fact, Michael Schiavo said he was not making the decision, he was following Terri's decision. And as her husband, he is much better position to hear Terri's decision on these things during their moments of intimacy than you are.

Or, do I now have to prove to you that Michael and Terri had moments of intimacy? Is that your next tack?

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parados wrote:

Lash wrote:
Why do you think me having an opinion is any more aggressive than you having one?

Should I believe everything you say?

You demand that you intrude into a marriage. You demand that we don't honor a husband and wife. You demand proof that a spouse isn't lying. What a crock. The standard is we believe the spouse UNTIL you provide evidence of his lying. You have failed to do so.

This is not about "opinions". This is about your demands that we ignore everything to do with honor and decency and compassion.

as for the body's reaction to starvation, here is a place to start

Starvation is not painful, experts say

Here is the study referenced in the above piece
Nurses' Experiences with Hospice Patients Who Refuse Food and Fluids to

End of life

Find my "demands" or be a liar.

How hysterical can you be and still be able to type? Show my demands. You just can't tolerate a different opinion. Grow up.

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Lash wrote:

Find my "demands" or be a liar.

How hysterical you be and still be able to type? Show my demands. You just can't tolerate a different opinion. Grow up.

Your statement is the one that sounds hysterical. You can't seem to make complete sentences.

Your statements in this thread follow. They add up to a demand that we not believe the husband.

Quote:

My complaint is that in the absence of a living will or her ability to state her wish to die--and in the presence of parents and siblings who begged to take custody of her, she should have been fed and given water. We don't know if she wanted to live. We don't know if her slow death was agonizingly painful.

What was their marriage like, keltic?

You brought up their relationship. In most marriages, there is intimacy and sharingh of deep personal information. I wasn't interested in what went on inside their marriage. YOU brought it up.

When you're going to cause someone to die, it is a good reason to demand 100% information about what you plan to do and why you are planning to do it.

Do you know anything about compassion or respect for someone's life, who can't speak for herself?

The standard I think she should meet is that she is alive and has not expressed the desire to die.

I respected her right to make that decision, not someone else's to make that decision for her.

Do you have proof that Terri Schiavo told her husband she didn't want to live if it involved being fed and given water?

You show a disregard for the marriage and what may have been told to Michael by Terri. You state a "demand" that we have 100% knowledge. You state no one else can make the decision, again showing a disregard for the marriage. You ask for proof about what Terri told her husband. You claim others aren't compassoniate if they don't have your opinion.

I see a pattern there and I haven't even bothered to pull all your posts from the other Schiavo threads yet.

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Pull all you like. I haven't demanded anything from anyone. If you could calm down and actually read, you will see you have assumed a lot about what I wrote.

This comment you tried so valiantly to rewrite:
When you're going to cause someone to die, it is a good reason to demand 100% information about what you plan to do and why you are planning to do it.
------
...is obviously not a demand for anyone here to do anything.

Try decaf.

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Find my "demands" or be a liar.

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Lash, Do you understand anything about a marriage? Do you question all decisions made in a marriage in private, because they don't have it written? Why must a couple satisfy your prurient interests - or any other matter? If you're not "demanding" anything, what business is it of yours? FYI, the courts of this country already settled this issue in favor of Michael, so what's your beef?

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Nothing is enough, Lash, nothing is enough. Court decision after court decision, medical opinion stacked on top of medical opinion, and now an autopsy confirming those medical opinions, still not enough to change your mind. Reasonable people have to ask, what would be enough?

What, in your mind, would be an acceptable level of evidence that would allow you to say that Michael Schiavo was correct on this issue and that the courts were equally correct in ruling in his favor? If there is no acceptable level of evidence then you are correct in saying you have no demands, instead there is no limit to your ability to refuse to look at any side to this issue other than the one you already, steadfastly, hold and there is, therefore, no reason to address you in this matter.

Joe(you cannot reach the end of limitness road)Nation

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Lash, to parados wrote:

Find my "demands" or be a liar.

Okay, here's a couple.

parados, in charging Lash wrote:

You demand that you intrude into a marriage.

What justifies parados' claim? Right here.

Lash wrote:

I would have respected her right to die. She didn't have a living will.

Until the Living Will, a comparatively new development, came around, the spouse traditionally made the life-and-death decisions for the other, if they were unable to do so. If there is no Living will-and usually there isn't-the spouse still makes the call.

By claiming that Michael's word on the matter is not to be taken, you have intruded into a marriage by claiming that Michael is not fit to make the call the spouse traditionally always makes.

parados wrote:

You demand that we don't honor a husband and wife.

Same as above. You would deny Michael the right to make the call that spouses traditionally make.

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Quote:

You can concede that someone who came to a different opinion did so based on as much consideration and thoughtfulness as you did--the only difference being that they reached a different conclusion. It isn't necessary to vilify someone just because they have a different opinion. I said concede the opinion is valid. There could be a distinction in the definition of "valid". I said I think both opinions should be considered valid. Meaning they were reached based on evidence that could be supported.

Quote:

It still astonishes me that so many people here refuse to concede that the other opinion on what happened to Schiavo is as valid as their opinion.

Your argument certainly seems to be that we should concede that your opinion about the marriage is valid. You can call me a liar all you want. Your bombastic attacks speak volumes. Your desire that we concede speaks volumes. The repetition of your statements speaks volumes. They all build to a demand that we validate your position. Why would you continue to harp on the issue if you didn't require that we concede?

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parados, in charging Lash, wrote:

You demand proof that a spouse isn't lying.

In fact, Lash wrote the following.

Lash wrote:

Do you have proof that Terri Schiavo told her husband she didn't want to live if it involved being fed and given water?

Moreover, since Michael said that he was not making the decision, when Lash wrote the following, she essentially is calling Michael a liar.

Lash wrote:

I respected her right to make that decision, not someone else's to make that decision for her.

Michael claimed that he wasn't making the decision, just following Terri's wishes.

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I appreciate you proving my case for me. I didn't want to search out posts showing how lame your false accusations were.

You have all been worked up and frothing at the mouth, while I have simply been asking questions and stating opinions.

..essentially calling Micheal a liar... LOL!!! Why so desperate?

Just because two people are married doesn't always mean they tell the truth or that they want what's best for their spouse. What is the statistic...most women murdered are murdered by their husband/boyfriend than others...? What kind of crap are you trying to sell about marriage?

I don't know where you came from, but asking is not the same as demanding. So lame. But, let it stand as proof of how you will contort beyond recognition to attempt to make a false point.

Show a demand of mine or be a liar.

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"What kind of crap are you trying to sell about marriage?"

We're not trying to sell anything about marriage. It just happens to be the legal form of living together as man and wife in most countries on this planet. Besides, I would never presume to sell you anything. Actually, you're the one frothing at the mouth by sticking your nose into other people's business. All the legal experts, courts, and doctors that were involved with Teri's case tells the rest of us you're just full of yourself, and fail to understand the legal and medical system of this country.

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CI--You're overcome with hyperbole.

There's nothing at stake for me. She's dead. I just continue to respond with my opinion when I'm responded to. If you don't like it, don't respond.

You and your co-horts seem bent out of shape.

Marriage doesn't automatically bestow truth and goodwill on the participants.

And, anytime you comment on anyone here other than yourself, YOU are sticking your nose in someone else's business. That's 95% of what goes on here. It's silly to make an issue of it in this one case.

In most hospital room situations, the family concurs before pulling the plug on someone if there's not a living will.

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You're the one that's "bent out of shape." You don't understand anything about privacy, our legal and medical system, and what passes as "opinion." Even your last paragraph is wrong; you can't seem to understand that in Teri's case, her husband was her "family." Most of your opinion is just so much BS. Quit while you're behind.

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I've never thought much of your opinion either frankly, but I don't try to act as though you have no right to speak it. I value freedom of speech and tolerance.

If you rejected your parents when you were married, that's your business. In my culture, we maintain relationships with parents aunts, uncles... Family is more than one person. I am tolerant of other cultures, though. Shouldn't you be?

A tip. Just because someone doesn't agree with something doesn't mean they "don't understand it".

If witnessing an opinion different than yours causes you so much mental anguish, I suggest that you avoid my posts. You're clearly devolving into "I know you are but what am I..." I don't want to be the catalyst for your imminent regression to third grade bickering.

Quit while you're behind.

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Lash wrote:

I appreciate you proving my case for me. I didn't want to search out posts showing how lame your false accusations were.

Nothing like a shallow, transparent attempt at a turnaround when you're beat, eh Lash?

Parados made three charges. I simply went into detail to illustrate how parados was entirely correct.

If you care to refute, why not go into detail where each of the quotes I cited do NOT prove the charge? I went into detail to illustrate they did-let's see you go into detail illustrating they did not.

You can't do it. You either stated or clearly implied all the things parados said you did.

Lash wrote:

Show a demand of mine or be a liar.

Already did, right here and here.

Your denials are useless. If you wish to prove something, you must go into detail on all three charges and illustrate why the quotes cited do not prove the charge. These generalizations will get you nowhere.

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Nah. You didn't prove anything. If you can read, you can figure it out by yourself.

If not, be wrong.

Oh yeah. Show a demand of mine or be a liar.

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Still think that you can bluff your way out of this, Lash?

Simply assume an aggressive posture? No matter what anyone says, no matter how anyone spells it out in detail, you think it is simply a case of dismissing it in general terms and then demanding that people once again do what they just did.

Any time you want to go into detail as to how the cited quotes do NOT support parados' charges, feel free.

Until then, my post takes precedence overy your superficial denials because I went into detail to show how they DID support parados's charges against you. Razz

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Quote:

...You either stated or clearly implied all the things parados said you did.
Lash wrote:
Show a demand of mine or be a liar.

Already did, right here and here.

Your denials are useless. If you wish to prove something, you must go into detail on all three charges and illustrate why the quotes cited do not prove the charge. These generalizations will get you nowhere.

Lash replied:

Quote:

Nah. You didn't prove anything. If you can read, you can figure it out by yourself.

If not, be wrong.

Oh yeah. Show a demand of mine or be a liar.

This answer is no answer, it is not even an honest reply.

Joe

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I didn't demand anything and you know it. Why are you so desperate to pretend I did? Its very clearly not a demand.

Anybody can cut and paste previous remarks that don't contain proof and call it proof, which is what he did.

This is quite a pathetic attempt to back up a lie. What's in it for you?

I can make up all kinds of things and say you implied them. He said I demanded something. I didn't. That's an unalterable fact.

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Schiavo Autopsy Shows No Sign of Abuse

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