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Schiavo Autopsy Shows No Sign of Abuse

 
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 09:29 pm
I'll tell them not to--in a living will. So, they'll know. And, I'll also tell them to use morphine, rather than starve or dehydrate me to death--in case you can suffer under those circumstances.

It's good to be able to express your wishes....so people know what they were.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 09:44 pm
I am getting a litle sick and tired of all these people who say there was NO indication that Teri would not want to live like a vegetable.

Isn't that marriage is all about? Intimacy? The other person is the one to whom you tell things that you DON'T tell anyone else?

I happen to think the say-so of her husband is a VERY good indication that Teri would not want to live in a PVS.

That is why next-of-kin makes the call in these matters.

But because the Next-of-kin decided in a way the pro-lifers do not like, they demonize him, call him a murderer, and say that we cannot take her next-of-kin's word for it, the decision should be made by "the family".

Here's a news flash-Michael IS her family, more so than her parents or siblings. That happened when she walked down the aisle and said "I do".

There is no reason NOT to believe Michael when he says that Terri would not want to live in a PVS. It is, after all, the kind of thing people talk about with their spouse, not the sort of thing that comes out in conversation with the parents, aunts and uncles over turkey at Thanksgiving dinner.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 09:57 pm
What was their marriage like, keltic?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 11:41 pm
Lash, You just don't get it. Their marriage is none of your business.
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2005 05:17 am
Lash wrote:
What was their marriage like, keltic?


What a desperate remark.

It is amazing how the conservative mind works.

From time immemorial, when a life-and-death decision had to be made and one spouse could not make it, the other spouse made it for them. In fact, the expression "Notify the next-of-kin" has become synonymous with either death or grave decisions.

The reason? Among others, because spouses say things to each other that they don't say to other people-even their parents and siblings. So the spouse is judged the one person most able to speak for the other.

Now, when the next-of-kin makes a decision that they don't like, suddenly conservatives think they have the right to change the law and thousands of years of tradition by asking, "What was their marriage like?".

They were living together as husband and wife. That's all you have to know. Michael is the next-of-kin. He makes these kinds of decisions. That is traditional, that is right, and that is also all you have to know.
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2005 05:20 am
I really hope there is a sea change in the way people perceive the religious right as a result of this. Before, I think a lot of people looked upon them as relatively benign, albeit a little too idealistic.

This case reveals them for the power hungry inquisitors they actually are.

Tradition and right goes out the window when someone makes a decision the conservatives don't like. And the character assassination squad gets called in.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2005 06:10 am
You nailed it, wizard.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2005 06:24 am
Daniel Ruth wrote this column for the Tampa Tribune. It is a beaut!

Quote:
Don't Hold Your Breath For This Sorry Excuse
DANIEL RUTH
Published: Jun 17, 2005

By any standard of common decency, Michael Schiavo is owed the mother of all apologies by the likes of radio goober Glenn Beck, the Morton Downey Jr.-lite of the airwaves.
Common decency? Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity and the rest of their sweat lodge of slander engaging in common decency? Hahahahaha!!!

Wouldn't expecting these goons with microphones to admit to their complicity in the character assassination of Michael Schiavo be like anticipating Saddam Hussein to willfully confess to genocide?

After all, it was Beck and his fellow travelers of faux hysteria who spent the past couple of years accusing the husband of Terri Schiavo of domestic abuse and attempted murder for simply wanting to honor his brain-damaged wife's wishes not to be kept alive in her tragic state.

Now at long last, Michael Schiavo has been vindicated by the truth, a foreign concept to all those phony so-called Christians, talk show thugs and politicians looking for a cheap sound bite who were more than ready to treat a brain-dead woman as their own personal ``Weekend At Bernie's'' of the Bible.

Contrary to the lies perpetrated by the likes of Joe Pyne wannabe, Glenn Beck, who tried to propagate the notion that Terri Schiavo had the neurological equivalent of the sniffles, Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Jon Thogmartin confirmed what Michael Schiavo and medical experts had always maintained - Terri Schiavo was indeed in a persistent vegetative state.

Wait! Was that the sound of an apology from Glenn Beck, the Joseph Goebbels of the chattering class?

Naw, that would require a conscience.

In addition, the autopsy confirmed Terri Schiavo was blind and because of a brain that had been replaced mostly by fluid, and she was in worse neurological shape than Karen Ann Quinlan, according to Polk Medical Examiner Stephen Nelson.


Or put another way, Terri Schiavo had ``no cognitive capability,'' Nelson noted, once again supporting Michael Schiavo and the numerous real doctors who had examined the woman over the past 15 years.

Refuting the voodoo advanced by the likes of Beck, the Sasquatch of the AM dial, Thogmartin concurred with repeated findings by the Florida Department of Children & Families that there was no evidence - NONE - that Terri Schiavo was physically abused in any way by her husband.

The autopsy report, again exposing the likes of Beck, the jackbooted storm trooper of the Arbitron ratings, and his acolytes of disinformation for the demagogues that they are, supported Michael Schiavo and his wife's medical team that there was no hope - NONE - Terri ever could have recovered from the massive loss of brain function she experienced 15 years ago.

It is more than understandable Terri Schiavo's parents Bob and Mary Schindler and her siblings were in a parallel universe of denial over the true state of their daughter's dire medical condition. They loved her.

And in such a circumstance, we can all understand how emotion and hope can sometimes trump reality.

But in the service of ratings points, audience share, ambition, ego and hubris, the likes of Glenn Beck, the Madame Defarge of Talk Radio, and his Posse Comitatus of prevarication were more than willing to engage in drive time vigilantism against Michael Schiavo, whose only crime was trying to honor his wife's end-of-life wishes.

Wait! Was that an apology by the likes of Glenn Beck, the Albert Speer of the Sackcloth and Ashes set, that he was wrong about - EVERYTHING?

Naw. That would require a soul.

That would require a some class.

That would require manhood.


Columnist Daniel Ruth can be reached at (813) 259-7599.


http://tampatrib.com/News/columns/MGB1TXRP1AE.html
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2005 07:58 am
It is indeed a beautiful piece. Thanks, Phoenix.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2005 08:44 am
I second that! It's a good piece with lot'sa issues the right will never admit to; their mistakes one after the other. They try to make political hay out of another person's life, then hide in the closet when they are revealed to be "fear mongers" and "religious fundamentalists."
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2005 03:49 pm
kelticwizard wrote:
I am getting a litle sick and tired of all these people who say there was NO indication that Teri would not want to live like a vegetable.

Isn't that marriage is all about? Intimacy? The other person is the one to whom you tell things that you DON'T tell anyone else?
I happen to think the say-so of her husband is a VERY good indication that Teri would not want to live in a PVS.

That is why next-of-kin makes the call in these matters.

But because the Next-of-kin decided in a way the pro-lifers do not like, they demonize him, call him a murderer, and say that we cannot take her next-of-kin's word for it, the decision should be made by "the family".

Here's a news flash-Michael IS her family, more so than her parents or siblings. That happened when she walked down the aisle and said "I do".

There is no reason NOT to believe Michael when he says that Terri would not want to live in a PVS. It is, after all, the kind of thing people talk about with their spouse, not the sort of thing that comes out in conversation with the parents, aunts and uncles over turkey at Thanksgiving dinner.


You brought up their relationship. In most marriages, there is intimacy and sharingh of deep personal information. I wasn't interested in what went on inside their marriage. YOU brought it up.

So, if you know so much--why don't you share what you know about the intimacy in their marriage?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2005 06:36 pm
Lash wrote:
parados--

Complete information about the infinite possibilities and/or intricate workings of the brain are not yet available. Therefore, that information was NOT available to the doctors in the Schiavo case.

There are some things that continue to be unknown. Why don't you admit it?


We do know that certain types of brain damage have NEVER resulted in a recovery. Terri Schaivo was one of those types. We also know the functions of many areas of the brain. We know that those areas were GONE in Terri's brain.

The idea that we can't know anything for certain is hardly a reason to ignore that it is 99.99% sure to be true.

The only unkown is why you continue to harp on something that is so obvious. Why won't you admit it?

We don't know everything there is to know about life so WHY can we possible bury people that we think are dead. There is a possibility that they aren't dead and could come back to life at any time. That is the essence of your argument. We have to ignore facts because there is some possibility that is highly unlikely but you don't want to give it up. The facts are ZERO times has anyone with Terri's brain damage ever come back. The facts are ZERO times has anyone that ever died come back to life. Do you know anything about probability Lash? Maybe you need to take a class in it.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2005 06:49 pm
He needs to start with a class in logic.
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Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2005 07:18 pm
Pull-the-plug decisions are made regularly in every hospital in the country. Terry Schiavo's family chose not to believe conventional medical opinion. The autopsy vindicated conventional medical opinion.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2005 07:38 pm
I wonder how the parents and siblings of Terri Schiavo communicates with their doctor?
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2005 07:55 pm
parados wrote:
Lash wrote:
parados--

Complete information about the infinite possibilities and/or intricate workings of the brain are not yet available. Therefore, that information was NOT available to the doctors in the Schiavo case.

There are some things that continue to be unknown. Why don't you admit it?


We do know that certain types of brain damage have NEVER resulted in a recovery.
Quote:
I haven't set recovery as the standard Schiavo would have to meet to be allowed to live. Is that your standard?
.
Terri Schaivo was one of those types. We also know the functions of many areas of the brain. We know that those areas were GONE in Terri's brain.
Quote:
But we don't know what was going on behind her eyes. We DON'T know if she was suffering in the absence of food and water. PVS patients do react to painful stimulus.


The idea that we can't know anything for certain is hardly a reason to ignore that it is 99.99% sure to be true.
Quote:
When you're going to cause someone to die, it is a good reason to demand 100% information about what you plan to do and why you are planning to do it.

We don't know everything there is to know about life so WHY can we possible bury people that we think are dead.... The facts are ZERO times has anyone with Terri's brain damage ever come back.

Quote:
I didn't think she'd "come back". I just thought it was wrong to starve her.


Do you know anything about probability Lash? Maybe you need to take a class in it.

Quote:
Do you know anything about compassion or respect for someone's life, who can't speak for herself? Take a class in that
.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2005 08:03 pm
Quote:
"Do you know anything about compassion or respect for someone's life, who can't speak for herself? Take a class in that"

Real compassion comes from speaking for all those children in this country that doesn't have health insurance. It doesn't come from a brain-damaged woman who has no possibility of returning to a normal life. She had no "cognition." Do you know what that means? That's the reason why they call it "persistent vegetative state."

Your compassion is misplaced. Keeping Teri Schiavo on a feeding tube and water is not compassion. She was no longer a thinking human being.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2005 08:03 pm
I think the horse has already died.
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eoe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2005 08:06 pm
And yet they continue to beat the poor thing.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2005 08:07 pm
Dead men tell no tales.
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