Mistreatment of copies of Mein Kampf: Lawsuit....

gungasnake wrote:

Ask yourself what would have happened in 1940 had it turned up that the sermons for every Lutheran church in America were being beamed over here from Berlin on Friday afternoons. How long would the Lutheran church have gone on its merry way?

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Until now, I thought, Hitler's attempt to control German churches led to the split of the German Lutheran Church and to the internment of some Lutherans (such as Martin Niemöller) in concentration camps and the execution of others (notably the theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer).
And since the later 30's, the Lutheran Church only lived - more or less - in the underground, as the so-called 'Bekennende Kirche' (German Confessing Church), which later made an important contribution to the reconstruction of West Germany' zones (later Federal Repubic of Germany, now Germany).

Most famous here is Niemöller's quote:
First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

I think, it would have been great if they could have contact with the USA, since the Lutherans only got help and support from the Scandinavian countries/churches during the Nazi period.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

gungasnake wrote:
Ask yourself what would have happened in 1940 had it turned up that the sermons for every Lutheran church in America were being beamed over here from Berlin on Friday afternoons. How long would the Lutheran church have gone on its merry way?

.
Until now, I thought, Hitler's attempt to control German churches led to the split of the German Lutheran Church and to the internment of some Lutherans (such as Martin Niemöller) in concentration camps and the execution of others (notably the theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer).

Good, you're starting to catch on. So after the nazi takeover, you had an official Luthern church, and then some sort of an underground remnant of the normal luthern church which was persecuted thereafter.

Now supposed that in 1939 we (Americans) had come to a situation in which the sermons for all Luthern churches in America were being radioed over here from Berlin on Friday afternoons. Which of the two German Lutheran churches do you think would be the one radioing sermons over here. That's right, the guys in the concentration camps would not have been allowed to own radios, and it would be the official nazi-Lutheran church radioing the sermons over.

Likewise, it is the official Saudi/Wahhabi muslims faxing sermons over here to America today.

I can tell you with no hesitation whatsoever that Franklin Roosevelt would not have tolerated a situation like that for two seconds. The leadership of the Lutheran church would have been rounded up and put in cages, and the Lutheran church itself would have been shut down, its properties confiscated, and its adherants told that they had five days in which to find either another religion, or another country.

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Walter Hinteler:
I don't know if you have read, or if you have read, whether you approve of William L. Shirer's book- "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich". Most of us in the USA think it is a masterpiece.

Shirer wrote:( P. 240)

"The National Reich Church of Germany categorically claims the exclusive right to control all churches within the borders of the Reich: it declares these to be national churches of the German Reich."

Now, that is the quintessential law making religion secular. The left wing in the USA might like that.

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chiczaira wrote:

Walter Hinteler:
I don't know if you have read, or if you have read, whether you approve of William L. Shirer's book- "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich". Most of us in the USA think it is a masterpiece.

Shirer wrote:( P. 240)

"The National Reich Church of Germany categorically claims the exclusive right to control all churches within the borders of the Reich: it declares these to be national churches of the German Reich."

Now, that is the quintessential law making religion secular. The left wing in the USA might like that.

I don't know if you know, chiczaira, but when you know personally (about) people who got prosecuted due to their believes as well as those who did such - you really don't need to read books about that.

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Mistreatment of copies of Mein Kampf: Lawsuit....

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