0
   

Mistreatment of copies of Mein Kampf: Lawsuit....

 
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2005 06:55 pm
If I demand that you respect/revere my religion...well, we have seen your response to that.

You support one religion and attack the other.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2005 06:58 pm
Not at all.

It is simple, Lash.


I attack you for bigotry because, while believing in one invisible friend, you attack another.

I am happy to respect your religion - when you stop spreading prejudice and hate about another's.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2005 06:59 pm
Lash wrote:
To expect non Muslims to respect/revere a book is stupid.

I could care less what they do--I get quite miffed when they expect others to observe their religion.


Then stop attacking theirs and expecting them to observe your non-book revering one.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2005 08:37 pm
Show where I have stated any such thing.

We can both throw crap on the screen for days, but it is of no benefit and a great waste of space and time. Why don't you behave honorably for once and show an example of me expecting Muslims, or anyone to observe my religion.

While you're at it, show an example of a bigoted statement by me.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2005 11:36 pm
Lash - you adore to insult and condemn - and constantly accuse others of twisting your words. Try not to do it, eh?

Is it so hard to see how your condemning another religion for revering a book is bigoted?

On what basis do you - a believer in one holy book - condemn another for a minutely different thing?

Yes I know - you will try to wriggle and say "I only condemn them for killing fopr it etc" - your words belie you.

You said it is stupid to revere a book.

This is their holy writ, it seems - again, on what basis do you respect your own holy writ and not another's?



I was attacking Gunga's postings to begin with - but you decided to come in and defend his hateful stuff. You tar yourself with the same brush.

Do you believe, with your god - the old testament one (actually - I am not sure if it IS the old testament one????) - and Gunga - that the prophets of other religions are "ravening wolves"?

You came here to support Gunga - or at least to crap on anyoone who didn't - what IS your attitude to other religions?

Are their believers going to hell, for instance? Will they go to your heaven if they are good, despite believing that a holy book is worthy of reverence?

On what basis do you say their holy book is not worthy of reverence, if their god says it is?

Because your god didn't say it is? If so - you DO expect them to believe as your religion decrees.

Or - in the absense of a holy christian writ about it, do you think that you are allowed to make up your own mind? There - the ABSENCE of a whisper from your invisible friend again - you think - gives you carte blanche to crap on the whispers of someone else's.

Again - on what basis do you say that the teachings of another's religion are stupid?


You can make good cases based on secular ethics that MANY of the religious teachings - including a number of your own, are stupid. But - how so you - as a person of faith - have a basis to challenge the faith of another?

I say again - you are just saying my invisible friend is better.

Pshaw.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2005 11:54 pm
Oh - by the way - just a matter of clarification.

You came to applaud the posting of a piece satirising the Islamic attitude to their book and their distress at its mistreatment by comparing them to nazis and their book to Mein Kampf.

Is this your attitude to Islam - that it is like fascism, and do you see the Quoran as similar to Mein Kampf?

That is - do you see one of the world's most influential religions in that way?

If not, how do you see it?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2005 12:10 am
dlowan wrote:


I attack you for bigotry because, while believing in one invisible friend, you attack another.

This is another of your increasingly careless statements. You used to be rather difficult to trip up, I think because you didn't have so much emotion invested...you measured your words.... You'll say anything now, and without the slightest sense of responsibility to show any basis for it.

So, people of faith have no right to criticise another faith--or aspects of that faith--or behavior of adherents of other faiths? But you, Frank, Setanta, Cyclop, and just about everyone here can...? Criticising aspects or practices of a religion immediately makes one a bigot? I know you don't support that. That would sort of boomerang back and condemn you and your buds, wouldn't it? As you know very well from identical discussions, which you could never defend, it is not the entire Muslim faith I criticise or want to amend, but yes, vital, serious aspects of it--those which compel and condone violence, oppression and intolerance.

Behavior you effectively support.


I am happy to respect your religion - when you stop spreading prejudice and hate about another's.

Please bring a link to my proselytizing efforts, or demands for you or others to conform to, or respect "my" religion. I cannot possibly convey how much I don't care what religion you do or don't respect.

There is a difference in prejudice, spreading hate and criticising.

You think criticising is only for you and your ilk. The subjects (the US, Republicans, Christians, Israel, conservative policies) are pre-approved and isolated.

What you do isn't prejudice, though. Rolling Eyes It's open season on your pre-approved subjects. But, quite a different story for those issues that didn't pass your approval, eh? Yeah. That would be prejudice! Don't say about THEM what I'm saying about YOU! That's spreading hate.....when you do it....

I have to assume your pattern of late--your avoidance of any effort to back up your accusations-- is symptomatic of a permanent afflication, in which case I will sincerely ask you not to engage me again. If you can't be counted on to back up what you say, or at least make an effort, further conversation is a supreme waste of time. If you can't finish what you start--don't start.
.


I refreshed and see you have jibbled something down.

But, no link to my bigotry. If it weren't so tiring, really tiring, it would be funny. So, joking about the French, and criticising the Europeans ( Laughing )is now considered bigotry?

So, criticizing the US must be bigotry? Who can we criticize and not call it bigotry...? When you and your liberal, paternalist pals come up with an approved list, just do a mass mailing.

Maybe you should settle on a definition....if you intend to complete this conversation and show links proving my bigotry and whatever your other accusation is. If not, don't bother.

But, .... Really, if you don't know the difference in a private belief, and believing you are authorized to kill people who don't follow your beliefs, let's just agree to not waste any more of our time.

Refreshed again:
Your post:

Quote:
You came to applaud the posting of a piece satirising the Islamic attitude to their book and their distress at its mistreatment by comparing them to nazis and their book to Mein Kampf.

Is this your attitude to Islam - that it is like fascism, and do you see the Quoran as similar to Mein Kampf?

That is - do you see one of the world's most influential religions in that way? If not, how do you see it?

I saw his post, and your vitriolic assault on him for daring to post it.

I saw Islam as not above satire....just like Christianity.

Do you see it that way? If not, how do you see it?
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2005 08:45 am
Top 10 Gulag Guantanamo Atrocities

10. Not even basic flight training is offered.
9. Only white wine is served - even on filet mignon night.
8. Detainees were denied absentee ballots for the Iraq, Afghanistan, and American elections.
7. Toilets are so large and powerful they disturb the detainees' naps when flushed.
6. Bars on the windows distract from the ocean views.
5. While guards have high speed internet connections, detainees are allowed only dial-up.
4. Interrogators sometimes break regulations and raise their voices.
3. Too few decent trowels are available.
2. Not enough Jimmy Carter inspection visits.
1. Arrow pointing to Mecca 1.2 degrees off, degrading prayer potency.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2005 06:13 pm
(Edit - I posted part of this - then added to it - but Lash appears to have already responded - just commenting so Lash's post in response further on makes sense)

Aha - jokes when it is you - and bigotry when it is others?

Yes, I see obsessive posting of hateful material as bigotry.

Please answer my other questions.

ON what Logical basis do you attack the words of another's invisible friend and call them stupid?

You have again added words - I said NOTHING about actions.

ON what Logical basis do you attack the words of another's invisible friend and call them stupid?

I said that there is a SECULAR ETHICAL base - but I doubt your right to call on that.




", it is not the entire Muslim faith I criticise or want to amend, but yes, vital, serious aspects of it--those which compel and condone violence, oppression and intolerance."

Well, thank goodness - I have never seen you say anything non-hateful about Islam before. At least that is something.

I am not convinced thast Islam condones violence more than your god has been interpreted to do - I won't debate the theology of it, cos I don't know enough - but hey - doesn't your god say "thou shalt not kill"? And doesn't your president et al say "God is on our side" as he orders to kill?

Again - you add things which are untrue - I have not accused you of proselytizing, except in your woeful illogic of condemning their god's words as stupid, while expecting them to feel as your god seemingly tells you to.

I accuse you of posting hateful stuff, though.

I see you appear to deny that you place Islam on a level with Fascism? Good.

I see NOTHING as above satire - reasonable satire - I note you objected to some of the satire on Condi - for racism, I believe - but you are happy to have a fellow faith condemned - IN TOTO - as Fascist? For a simple admonition to respect their book? I see - well, whatever. I see Gunga's stuff as simple bigoted hate speech. You don't.


The kill stuff - again, really Lash, this is beginning to look like deliberate lies. Again - I made no mention of not condemning actions. I have repeatedly explained to you that I am attacking your characterization as stupid their god's direction to revere a book - I don't thing I can make it any plainer.

Ah - the old bigotry against the US thing - sigh. I accept that you and your ilk see it as that. It might be so if that was all I ever said - but, having posted several major exceptions to that in another threead where the right chose to debate that instead of the topic, I won't bother.

Let us just see that you condemn bigotry - so I assume hateful stuff about others will disappear from your postings?


I see it is a vain endeavour - you deny your clear bigotry re France etc as a "joke" - I woud have called a lot of it trolling, yes - but I never see hateful speech as a joke.


Let us, indeed, agree to waste no more time.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2005 06:25 pm
Oh yeah! well, my god can beat up your god any day of the week!
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2005 06:34 pm
Obsessive posting of hateful material...is bigotry....?

You have just swiped 90% of the members here. Another careless post.

No, I reject your self-styled definition of bigotry. We shall use the actual one.

Suck it, Frenchy-- while indiscreet and possibly not as uproariously funny to some as to me--cannot be arranged into bigotry by even the most deft manipulator.

I don't take anyone seriously, who takes French jokes seriously..... If it were possible, I would be a bigot against this sort of humourlessless mould--though, alas, it isn't possible.

But, quid pro quo-- when you provide proof of my bigotry, I will happily answer a question.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2005 06:57 pm
dyslexia wrote:
Oh yeah! well, my god can beat up your god any day of the week!


Huh? My NO God can beat up yours - and the french - and the EU and the LIBERALS and the Germies (as Lash calls them) and Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein and influenza any day!!!
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2005 07:01 pm
Germie is a term of endearment.

<nods>
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2005 07:12 pm
All of these enlightening posts and yet none defending the nature of Gungasnake's racist and hate-speech filled list of sites.


Did you click on any of the "Rape in ...." sites? Did you read any the pathetic nonsense contained therein?

Who give Gungasnake an attaboy for such filth?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2005 07:20 pm
I didn't look at it.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2005 07:30 pm
Lol - one rests one's case.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2005 07:35 pm
One had admitted evidence into one's case without advising counsel.

We were discussing his opening post. You never mentioned anything in addition to that.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2005 08:17 pm
dlowan wrote:
gungasnake wrote:
Joe Nation wrote:


What would you tell a Muslim about what you believe and why?



I'd tell him the last real prophet died around 2600 years ago. You can read Julian Jaynes' book for the reasoning behind that statement.

I'd tell him that the bible specifically states that Christ arrived in the world after prophets had ceased to exist:

Quote:


BOOK OF HEBREWS

CHAPTER 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.



and that Christ specifically warned us against bandit chieftains and pedophiles like Mohammed who would try to claim to be prophets and the like:

Quote:

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


and that the evil fruits of I-slam are writ large on the pages of history books and newspapers alike.

Aside from that, I'd urge him to repent and renounce I-slam and any other forms of devil-worship or idolatry he might be practicing.

Why?



And here is the utterly beautifully perfect example.

Gunga goes on with great and reverend solemnity about the rightness and so on of what his invisible friend says, quoting from his "holy" book.

Yet he - seemingly unaware of the egregious and hilarious irony - derides the sayings of Islam's invisible friend about their "holy book" - adding to the deliciousness of the irony, is that most people regard their invisible friends as the same - or closely related, with different empahses having grown up over time - and their books are also closely related.

Breath-taking blindness, no?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2005 08:21 pm
dlowan wrote:
Lash - you adore to insult and condemn - and constantly accuse others of twisting your words. Try not to do it, eh?

Is it so hard to see how your condemning another religion for revering a book is bigoted?

On what basis do you - a believer in one holy book - condemn another for a minutely different thing?

Yes I know - you will try to wriggle and say "I only condemn them for killing fopr it etc" - your words belie you.

You said it is stupid to revere a book.

This is their holy writ, it seems - again, on what basis do you respect your own holy writ and not another's?



I was attacking Gunga's postings to begin with - but you decided to come in and defend his hateful stuff. You tar yourself with the same brush.

Do you believe, with your god - the old testament one (actually - I am not sure if it IS the old testament one????) - and Gunga - that the prophets of other religions are "ravening wolves"?

You came here to support Gunga - or at least to crap on anyoone who didn't - what IS your attitude to other religions?

Are their believers going to hell, for instance? Will they go to your heaven if they are good, despite believing that a holy book is worthy of reverence?

On what basis do you say their holy book is not worthy of reverence, if their god says it is?

Because your god didn't say it is? If so - you DO expect them to believe as your religion decrees.

Or - in the absense of a holy christian writ about it, do you think that you are allowed to make up your own mind? There - the ABSENCE of a whisper from your invisible friend again - you think - gives you carte blanche to crap on the whispers of someone else's.

Again - on what basis do you say that the teachings of another's religion are stupid?


You can make good cases based on secular ethics that MANY of the religious teachings - including a number of your own, are stupid. But - how so you - as a person of faith - have a basis to challenge the faith of another?

I say again - you are just saying my invisible friend is better.

Pshaw.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2005 08:57 pm
1393562 has no bearing on me. I didn't address it, it didn't address me. I never engaged that portion of the conversation. I was interested in one aspect of this thread. The opening post and the next two posts.

Re 1353970; it has lots of questions to me, which I will begin to answer/address in quid pro quo fashion as soon as you back up your assertion that I am a bigot by showing proof.
0 Replies
 
 

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