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Mistreatment of copies of Mein Kampf: Lawsuit....

 
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 04:57 am
Lash wrote:
I will say that the balance of my post refers to the excerpt and not Gunga. I don't want to guess his motive. He may not have read that particular passage, or he may not be serious about it. He can ably speak for himself.

I found the bolded portion of the second paragraph horrible and dangerous.

I would hope no one would agree with that.


Okay. Thank you for your forthright reply. JN

==
As for you, Gungasnake, I repeat: ...hate destroys your own spirit and does not make any of us stronger. Hate is a sign of weakness, not only in our enemies, but in ourselves. When we defeat our enemies, not Islam, but our enemies, it will not have been hatred that will have won the day, but the strength of our better principles.

Hate has blinded you so much that you believe the hate groups view of reality and subscribe to the idea, if it can be called that, that the current methods of the Russians towards Islam represents some sort of middle ground.

The world is not a binary place of banishment or subjugation unless you align yourself with those who think in either/ors, black or white, good or evil, a simplistic philosophy that usually appears when people are afraid.
They begin to believe that if they hate if must be because they are hated, so they assign hatred everywhere else but themselves. The Islamists hate us, the Democrats hate us, Bill Clinton hates us, the French hate us, the unnamed rapists of Sweden hate us, and we're not too sure about that anonymous writer Joe Nation. Pick whatever order you want, none of them are true.

What is true is we are in a struggle for freedom, but hate will not lead us, the values and principles of justice and democracy will carry the day. Have faith in those, and in those who live their lives by them and teach your children the same.

Joe Nation
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 07:16 am
Somebody who sits there and worries about other people hating a clear and present danger is in a state of denial.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 07:25 am
Joe Nation wrote:


The world is not a binary place of banishment or subjugation, blah, blah, blah.....


That is a clear and dishonest misstatement of my position. I mentioned three possibilities and not two. The third possibility for dealing with Islam, aside from the possibilities of banning it or being subjugated by it, was

Quote:

Establish some official and tightly controlled version of it which is tolerated, and ban all others, particularly Wahhabism. That, more or less, seems to be Russia's approach.


That would be my first choice, although watching the government ban it wouldn't really break my heart.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 06:28 pm
I commented on your solution:
Quote:
Hate has blinded you so much that you believe the hate groups view of reality and subscribe to the idea, if it can be called that, that the current methods of the Russians towards Islam represents some sort of middle ground.


to which I might add:

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Not all the false prophets are Muslims, the false prophets you've been listening to bring you to ideas like this:

Quote:
Establish some official and tightly controlled version of it (Islam) which is tolerated, and ban all others, particularly Wahhabism. That, more or less, seems to be Russia's approach.


It is, more or less, Russia's way of doing things, but in order for the USA to do it we would have to suspend, or do away with entirely, the 1st, 4th, 5th and 14th Amendments of the Constitution. Would you seriously consider such a proposal? Just how much like the present Russian government would you like ours to be?

To say nothing of how such treatment of Muslims and Islam would be much appreciated by Osama bin Laden.

Joe(It's going to be a very long engagement)Nation
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 07:47 pm
Joe Nation wrote:


Quote:
Establish some official and tightly controlled version of it (Islam) which is tolerated, and ban all others, particularly Wahhabism. That, more or less, seems to be Russia's approach.


It is, more or less, Russia's way of doing things, but in order for the USA to do it we would have to suspend, or do away with entirely, the 1st, 4th, 5th and 14th Amendments of the Constitution. Would you seriously consider such a proposal?



In fact, yes. The bill of rigthts was not intended as a suicide pact:

Quote:


I don't believe in one way streets. Having Islam legal in our country at all is a one way street, considering that it is not legal to practice Christianity in Saudi Arabia.

If you or anybody in our government wants to go on thinking that Islam is a religion and not an ideological foundation for world dominion, then I'd suggest you get used to thinking about dealing with it the way Russia deals with it. That I think is the most anybody could reasonably ask of any nation or any people.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 07:49 pm
http://www.waco-anewrevelation.com/media/fire.jpg

Janet Reno's method of dealing with religions like Islam...
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 07:51 pm
Let me ask you a question here, Joe: Do you have any problem with banning Wahhabism in America and, if so, why?
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 04:34 am
Quote:
Do you have any problem with banning Wahhabism in America and, if so, why?


Other than answering that such a ban would necessitate the overthrow of the US government and it's Constitution, there isn't much to say.

The last time I looked it was illegal for Wahhabists or you to plot to do such a thing.

Name some ideological foundations for world dominion :
Socialism
Hinduism
Democracy
Islam
Communism
Christianity
Multinational Corporatism
Judaism
Social Darwinism
(not a complete list)


Joe(Oh, baby, it's a wild world.)Nation
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 05:52 am
Somehow or other, I could picture somebody like you telling that last Jurchid emperor of China not to worry, that Chengis Khan fellow was just another reliigious zealot...
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 06:45 am
Cool

Heh, I don't about you but I'm enjoying this.

Understand that I think we are under attack, but I also think we have the means and wherewithal of defending ourselves and this country. What we don't need is irrational talk about shipping people out, or finding ways of monitoring ways of worship. What's next after we round up the Islamists? All Jews to Israel? Recording of the sermons down there at the Peace and Justice Center of the Methodist Church? (They keep calling for a withdrawal date from Iraq, could be colluders.) Censure of the American College of Cardinals? The President no longer allowed to say "God Bless America." at the end of his speechs... wait a minute, this is starting to sound like a good idea. Smile

Intelligence, prosecution of crimes, combined with military action against
military targets, destruction of financial support entities and good old political arm twisting will stifle Al Queda. That and the awareness of people in Islamic countries that they are about to be left behind again. While their mullahs have been preaching isolation from the West, the people of India are becoming the premier deliverers of business and financial information, the centerpieces of worldwide computer help desks and the faster growing developers of new software. All which results in economic growth and stability, the Muslim world hangs motionless, but for how long? As long as they let imaginary friends get in the way.

I know, I'm rambling. But I'm hungry and I'm late for breakfast.

Joe
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 06:50 am
gunga's grandfather was busy rounding up all Japanese Americans for Manzanita.

For every problem there is usually a solution that is simple, direct , and most often, dead wrong. Mencken
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 07:04 am
We should make a list of all the dis-loyals hereabouts starting with those yahoos who fly the Confederate Battle Flag, clearing unpatriotic. Who else? Oh, that Rush fellow, constantly putting down the efforts of any administration, he has been carping for years now, enough. Who else?
Oh, I say round up all those other ranters who inhabit the internet, the internet is a known abyss of degradation and pornography, these complainers, so call A2Kers, are a blight on the 1st Amendment. Let's herd them together so they can bleat in each other ears and leave us alone.

Joe(Wait. There's a knocking on my door)Nation
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 10:09 am
I really don't think that any sane persons can have the same ideas like most Nazis had here in Germany.
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 03:17 pm
Didn't they, and I am asking this seriously, didn't they start out thinking that they were the sane ones, that they had the right ideas, the right solutions to the problems? Didn't the madness start out small?




Like all brain tumors.

Joe Nation
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 03:20 pm
Correct Sad
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chiczaira
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jun, 2005 01:13 am
And I am sure that Walter Hinteler knows that one of the main Nazi thrusts was the attack on organized religion.

William L. Shirer in his masterwork-"The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" reports that--"The National Reich Church of Germany categorically claims the exculsive right and the exclusive power to control all churches within the borders of the Reich"

I wonder if they allowed Creches to be displayed at Christmas?
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jun, 2005 01:44 am
Having Islam legal in America but Christianity and Judaeism illegal in Islammic countries is not freedom of religion; that is a one way street.

When you have the sermons for every mosque in America being faxed over here from Riyadh on Friday afternoons, that is not freedom of religion; it's infiltration.and manipulation.

No rational nation or society would tolerate these things.

Ask yourself what would have happened in 1940 had it turned up that the sermons for every Lutheran church in America were being beamed over here from Berlin on Friday afternoons. How long would the Lutheran church have gone on its merry way?

Think real hard...
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jun, 2005 04:56 am
Where did you study history? In 1940, there were speechs made everyday in America on the pro and cons of "the recent unpleasantness in Europe", and sermons as well, some condemning the actions of the German regime, others arguing (including, for example, Charles Lindbergh and TIME magazine), that the Nazis would bring stability to the area.

Gosh darn, First Amendment allowed people to openly talk about their ideas, good and bad. Oughta dump it, right?

Joe(the more light you put on bad ideas, the less they shine)Nation
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jun, 2005 06:25 am
chiczaira wrote:
And I am sure that Walter Hinteler knows that one of the main Nazi thrusts was the attack on organized religion.


No.

(Hitler appointed a Reich Bishop, Ludwig Mueller, who led a "German Christian" movement within the Evangelical/Protestant church.

The Catholic church in Germany was controlled by the Vatican, under the leadership of Pope Pius XI, and signed a Concordat with the German Reich shortly after Hitler got power in 1933.)


But you might enlighten me.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jun, 2005 06:28 am
chiczaira wrote:

I wonder if they allowed Creches to be displayed at Christmas?


Why not? (At least I've never heart such was forbidden or/and not done.)
0 Replies
 
 

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