I love you poor boobs who are constantly claiming victory.
Every argument you've made in this thread....and the other threads in which you post...have been shown to be baloney. Your arguments are, in fact, pathetic. As I mentioned...we've had some theists in this forum who were able to put together a sustained and reasonable defense of theism. They had some defects....and those defects, when pointed out, showed their arguments to be losers.
But you have not even come close to reasonable arguments....and logic, to you, apparently is simply something that must be twisted in order to try to shoehorn some pet "belief" into it.
But as I have said in the past...you provide a laugh a minute....and for that we must be thankful.
Frank Apisa wrote:So I've lost, eh? Well, allow me to borrow a page from Timber and point out a few of the logical fallacies upon which you rely:I love you poor boobs who are constantly claiming victory.
Every argument you've made in this thread....and the other threads in which you post...have been shown to be baloney. Your arguments are, in fact, pathetic. As I mentioned...we've had some theists in this forum who were able to put together a sustained and reasonable defense of theism. They had some defects....and those defects, when pointed out, showed their arguments to be losers.
But you have not even come close to reasonable arguments....and logic, to you, apparently is simply something that must be twisted in order to try to shoehorn some pet "belief" into it.
But as I have said in the past...you provide a laugh a minute....and for that we must be thankful.
argumentum ad lapidem: One of your favorites; dismissing a statement as BS, without offering proof.
argumentum ad populum and predjudicial fallacy: appealing to your perceived emotional interests of the crowd.
argumentum ad verecundiam: Another biggie; Referring me to spurious websites and incompetent authorities, many of whom you yourself state to be liars.
damning the origin: asserting that I have an irrational motive (fear) for my belief.
appeal to pity: calling the Egyptian firstborn 'babies'
strawman: Attempting to refute the bible by attacking misrepresentations of the bible.
begging the question: Attempting to support your assertions about hell with your misguided belief about the definition of hell.
But the coffee invitation stands.
And I reiterate:
Every argument you've made in this thread....and the other threads in which you post...have been shown to be baloney. Your arguments are, in fact, pathetic. As I mentioned...we've had some theists in this forum who were able to put together a sustained and reasonable defense of theism. They had some defects....and those defects, when pointed out, showed their arguments to be losers.
Frank Apisa wrote:Yeah, Frank. Why don't you just review a few of my objections for those who are less familiar with the thread?And I reiterate:
Every argument you've made in this thread....and the other threads in which you post...have been shown to be baloney. Your arguments are, in fact, pathetic. As I mentioned...we've had some theists in this forum who were able to put together a sustained and reasonable defense of theism. They had some defects....and those defects, when pointed out, showed their arguments to be losers.
neologist wrote:Frank Apisa wrote:Yeah, Frank. Why don't you just review a few of my objections for those who are less familiar with the thread?And I reiterate:
Every argument you've made in this thread....and the other threads in which you post...have been shown to be baloney. Your arguments are, in fact, pathetic. As I mentioned...we've had some theists in this forum who were able to put together a sustained and reasonable defense of theism. They had some defects....and those defects, when pointed out, showed their arguments to be losers.
Okay...
...we discussed the "allegory" of the garden of eden....
...and I showed that it was a sting operation...with naive, essentially new-borns placed in a situation where they could not win. Your god knew that they did not know the difference between right and wrong...good and evil...and when they did what he asked them not to do....even though they did NOT KNOW there was anything wrong with what they were doing...your god visited intense punishment upon them...and all the rest of humanity.
We discussed the fact that your god....who supposedly had made all the suns in our galaxy....and all the hundreds of billions of other galaxies that we know of...and who could have easily freed the Hebrews from their supposed captivity in thousands of non-intrusive, non-barbaric ways...
...instead chose to use barbarism and murder. And your god MADE Pharaoh obdurate so that Pharaoh was also the victim of a sting by this barbaric, murderous god.
We discussed the fact that your god pretty much demands that a man who loves another man and who acts on that by having sex male-to-male...be stoned to death...
...yet if one of those men wanted to buy another man and hold that man and the man's wife and children as slaves forever...
...that would be okay with your god.
I have offered several passages showing the god to be jealous, murderous, barbaric, vindictive, vengeful, quick-to-anger slow-to-forgive, tyrannical and petty. You have been unable to furnish even one passage showing the god to be the loving, kind, understanding god you claim it is.
I have....
...but why go on.
Every argument you have presented has been blown out of the water by me or any of several other participants.
Soooo....how'd I do?
Frank, you have got to love God to be so arduous on his followers...
.
neologist wrote:Frank Apisa wrote:Yeah, Frank. Why don't you just review a few of my objections for those who are less familiar with the thread?And I reiterate:
Every argument you've made in this thread....and the other threads in which you post...have been shown to be baloney. Your arguments are, in fact, pathetic. As I mentioned...we've had some theists in this forum who were able to put together a sustained and reasonable defense of theism. They had some defects....and those defects, when pointed out, showed their arguments to be losers.
Okay...
...we discussed the "allegory" of the garden of eden....
...and I showed that it was a sting operation...with naive, essentially new-borns placed in a situation where they could not win. Your god knew that they did not know the difference between right and wrong...good and evil...and when they did what he asked them not to do....even though they did NOT KNOW there was anything wrong with what they were doing...your god visited intense punishment upon them...and all the rest of humanity.
We discussed the fact that your god....who supposedly had made all the suns in our galaxy....and all the hundreds of billions of other galaxies that we know of...and who could have easily freed the Hebrews from their supposed captivity in thousands of non-intrusive, non-barbaric ways...
...instead chose to use barbarism and murder. And your god MADE Pharaoh obdurate so that Pharaoh was also the victim of a sting by this barbaric, murderous god.
We discussed the fact that your god pretty much demands that a man who loves another man and who acts on that by having sex male-to-male...be stoned to death...
...yet if one of those men wanted to buy another man and hold that man and the man's wife and children as slaves forever...
...that would be okay with your god.
I have offered several passages showing the god to be jealous, murderous, barbaric, vindictive, vengeful, quick-to-anger slow-to-forgive, tyrannical and petty. You have been unable to furnish even one passage showing the god to be the loving, kind, understanding god you claim it is.
I have....
...but why go on.
Every argument you have presented has been blown out of the water by me or any of several other participants.
Soooo....how'd I do?
Frank Apisa wrote:I think I presented a good counterargument HERE No need to post it again....we discussed the "allegory" of the garden of eden....
...and I showed that it was a sting operation...with naive, essentially new-borns placed in a situation where they could not win. Your god knew that they did not know the difference between right and wrong...good and evil...and when they did what he asked them not to do....even though they did NOT KNOW there was anything wrong with what they were doing...
Frank Apisa wrote:This is a real hard one for you to understand; but I'll try to simplify. The punishment was to be death for Adam and Eve. You are ruminating over the application of that punishment to the rest of humanity. Well, you know, Frank. I'm ticked off about that as well. But the fault is not with God. I hope I am not asking too much for you to consider the situation presented by Satan and his two recruits, but here goes:your god visited intense punishment upon them...and all the rest of humanity.
God had the power to execute Adam and Eve on the spot. If He had done that, you and I would never have been born and would not be having this conversation. Also, nobody questioned his power (If you believe the bible, that is.) The challenge posed by Satan was that God was a liar; that He withheld something desirable to humans; that they would be better off without Him and that no one would serve God out of love but only so long as things went well for them.
Were God to execute immediate judgement, it would mean abandoning His purpose to have the earth inhabited by Adam and Eve's descendants. So much for the God, Jehovah, whose name means 'He who causes to become'.
Were God to forgive Adam and Eve, it would prove Him a liar, since He told them in no uncertain terms what the punishment for disobedience would be. (And how would they now repair the defect they created in their consciences?)Frank Apisa wrote:The lesson learned from this is that God is able to deliver His people regardless of the forces mounted against them. The future is not without hope for those who died, Frank. I know you don't like to contemplate that. But Jesus did promise a resurrection for all those who never knew God in which all would have a chance to live the life Adam and Eve lost. You are perfectly within your rights to consider this a fairy tale, Frank, but don't come sniveling to me about the poor 'babies'. You can't call it brutality on one end and fairy tale on the other just because you don't like it. The whole schtick is for sale, Frank. Buy it or beg off.We discussed the fact that your god....who supposedly had made all the suns in our galaxy....and all the hundreds of billions of other galaxies that we know of...and who could have easily freed the Hebrews from their supposed captivity in thousands of non-intrusive, non-barbaric ways...
...instead chose to use barbarism and murder. And your god MADE Pharaoh obdurate so that Pharaoh was also the victim of a sting by this barbaric, murderous god.Frank Apisa wrote:"The wage sin pays is death." (Romans 6:23) The manner of death proscribed by God indicates his judgment of the sin. Once again, however, ". . . he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin." (Romans 6:7) Funny you should pick on this issue. The homosexual lifestyle may be a Hobson's choice, but it is still a choice; and it has many negative consequences. Do you think it should be approved by God?We discussed the fact that your god pretty much demands that a man who loves another man and who acts on that by having sex male-to-male...be stoned to death...Frank Apisa wrote:Slavery was permitted and regulated, true. We are all slaves to one thing or another and finally to death. How people treated those who were slaves is a matter between them and God....yet if one of those men wanted to buy another man and hold that man and the man's wife and children as slaves forever...
...that would be okay with your god.Frank Apisa wrote:Really? Look what He puts up with. Satan is still free to prove his claim about the human race. He delights in the reproach brought upon God by the abominations he has sponsored. Whenever someone points out that this world situation is not God's fault, they face ridicule. I'm not making any apologies for the last six thousand years, Frank. The blame falls on Satan and those who cooperate with him.I have offered several passages showing the god to be jealous, murderous, barbaric, vindictive, vengeful, quick-to-anger slow-to-forgive, tyrannical and petty. You have been unable to furnish even one passage showing the god to be the loving, kind, understanding god you claim it is.
I have....Frank Apisa wrote:...but why go on.
Every argument you have presented has been blown out of the water by me or any of several other participants.
Oh, my! I am damn near in pain from the laughter.
You are so very much in denial.
Hey....take it easy. Your god is a cartoon. He ain't gonna hurt you because deep inside you already realize that I am correct in what I am saying....and that you are merely grasping at straws.
Your god is a cartoon...and he will not punish you for realizing that all you've "believed" is, more than likely, pure fiction...this belief system of yours amounts to little more (perhaps less) than the "belief systems" of young toddlers in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny.
I love when you post, Neo. You are a great, GREAT help to me.
Quote:Hypothesis contrary to fact, Frank
Soooo....how'd I do?
Good job.
Keep up the good work!
Poor, poor Neo.
He is stuck insisting that Adam and Eve knew right from wrong...good from evil....
...even though the story tells us that they didn't....
...and that Neo's god was insistent that they not learn that difference.
But Neo....despite the fact that it is there in black and white....and despite the fact that it is an integral part of the tale...
...is stuck insisting that they did know.
The main reason for Neo insisting that they did know...is so that he does not have to acknowledge that the allegory fails....and that the "punishment" was absurd considering there was nothing that warranted punishment.
Adam and Eve, as the fairytale is told in the Bible, simply did not know there was anything wrong with disobedience.
******
Poor, poor Neo.
He is stuck with insisting that his god did not make Pharaoh obdurate....
...even though it says in black and white in Bible that his god DID make Pharaoh obstinate and obdurate.
The main reason Neo must insist that the god did not make Pharaoh obstinate and obdurate...which the god actually brags about doing...
....is so that he does not have to acknowledge that this fairytale....like the Eden fairytale....
...fails and that Neo's god is a dick for torturing the people of Egypt and for killing all the firstborn.
Poor, poor Neo!
