8
   

Trump/Cummings: "no YOU'RE racist!"

 
 
Reply Mon 29 Jul, 2019 11:12 am
It is a new phenomenon in politics to see two politicians both accuse each other of racism. Racism is a very complex phenomenon, that can mean different things on different levels, so it's a problem that it is so often just hurled as an insult without causing any further discussion that would take steps toward solving the problem.

Obviously it would be great if everyone could and would just avoid racism and somehow that would solve the problem. Avoidance, however, tends to lead people to ostracize others whom they expect to raise the topic. So by avoiding the topic of racism, the practice of racism actually gets protected and preserved.

So assuming that both Trump and Cummings are truly concerned about racism in their own ways, as they view it, why doesn't the media go beyond simply reporting that they call each other racist and explain what each actually means by it, and why their views differ?

In general, my impression is that there are simple reasons Trump gets accused of racism, that are just misunderstanding. People can behave like animals, for example, regardless of their skin color or other racial/ethnic classification. However, if Trump says that people are like animals, referring to behavior, that the media will equate this with old racist stereotypes that compare minority races with animals as a biological form of inferiority of one race in comparison with others.

So although it makes sense that some people would misinterpret labeling some person or people as (an) animal(s) as having a traditionally racist and thus offensive meaning, it is also reasonable to describe certain people as animals in terms of their behavior, such as people who never clean or people who abuse others to take power over them.

Since there is a broad spectrum of hygiene that doesn't discriminate according to race, it is not racist to call people with bad hygiene 'animals,' as long as you don't whitewash some people with bad hygiene because of their race while criticizing others.

Maybe what is not racist, but is 'superiorist' is when people criticize others without empathizing with them in any way. After all, we are all familiar with sin because we're all sinners.
Quote:

Colossians 3
12Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience. 13Bear with each other and forgive any complaint you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.…
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Type: Discussion • Score: 8 • Views: 1,248 • Replies: 62

 
Sturgis
 
  3  
Reply Mon 29 Jul, 2019 01:36 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
It is a new phenomenon in politics...


No, it is not new. The main change, the biggest change has emerged recently with the continued rantings from current president Donald Trump.

Fresh fuel from his Twitter finger and oral blatherings has managed to elevate this to a new level. Mostly from the Republicans and their cronies (office staff). What you wish (somewhat delusionally I must add), to refer to as racism from the opposite side, is not (for the most part, exceptions almost always exist), anything close to racism. It is citizens of the country responding and speaking out and speaking up against the ignorance which the Republicans keep spewing (especially the staunchest and most "conservative" ...they really need to learn that being a conservative does not mean trashing and ignorantly ignoring the Constitution).
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Jul, 2019 02:28 pm
@livinglava,
Trump is particularly awful.

You can't everyone is alike... that just isn't true. Anyone with any social grace knows that you don't tell Americans to "go back to their country" just because their descendants are from Africa or Latin America rather than Europe.

By the way, if your belief in God is sincere (and I have no reason to doubt that it is) you should be very careful using the Bible to justify Trump's actions. Read Matthew 25.... being a believer does not mean you won't face judgement.

Jesus defined right and wrong. And what Trump is doing, particularly in terms of immigrants, is the exact opposite of the message of Christ.

RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Jul, 2019 03:54 pm
@maxdancona,
Its hard to tell the difference between Trump and many so called Christian churches.
0 Replies
 
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Reply Mon 29 Jul, 2019 07:02 pm
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:
In general, my impression is that there are simple reasons Trump gets accused of racism, that are just misunderstanding.


I'm very sure I don't agree with where you're going with this.

You want to compare a man whose racist speech and actions go back 50 years or more to someone undeserving of such rhetoric.

No, there's no "misunderstanding" here. Racism isn't all that complex. No one is avoiding the topic, what's avoided is calling Trump out on his bull and his followers thinking it's ok for him to be racist because the stock market is soaring, or ignoring it because he is"protecting the 2nd Amendment."

If you want to stick up for a racist snob, be my guest. But at least be truthful that you're sticking up for a racist snob. After all, most people stick with their own kind.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Jul, 2019 07:06 pm
@livinglava,
Trump undoubtedly says things that are racist. I can't speak to his intent... I think it is bluster for his base.

Trump's basic message is clear. America is for White Christian People. Anyone else who wants to live here needs to adapt to the needs of the people he considers to be the real Americans.
livinglava
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 29 Jul, 2019 07:36 pm
@neptuneblue,
neptuneblue wrote:

No, there's no "misunderstanding" here. Racism isn't all that complex.

Sure it is. If Trump can say, "this part of Baltimore is being kept down by racism, and it's the Dems fault; and the Dems/Cummings can call him racist for criticizing the area he's criticizing; then that leaves some unpacking to do in terms of what each means with 'racism' and how they can both be legitimately accusing each other of racism (or not, and why).

Quote:
If you want to stick up for a racist snob, be my guest. But at least be truthful that you're sticking up for a racist snob. After all, most people stick with their own kind.

I'm the one trying to have an actual discussion about racism, and you're calling me a racist to cut me down? Do you think it's possible that your stance is actually more supportive of racism than mine, even while you accuse me and Trump and whomever else of racism?

Do you actually think (deeply) about racism at all?
livinglava
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 29 Jul, 2019 07:39 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Trump undoubtedly says things that are racist. I can't speak to his intent... I think it is bluster for his base.

Trump's basic message is clear. America is for White Christian People. Anyone else who wants to live here needs to adapt to the needs of the people he considers to be the real Americans.

Actually, what he and others say is that Democrat/socialist policies keep poor/black people down despite ostensibly being for their benefit.

Democrats avoid acknowledging this claim, because they don't want to risk the possibility that their government jobs will be in jeopardy when it turns out they are harming those they are meant to benefit.

I don't understand why Democrats won't just engage in open, honest discussion with their GOP critics. If they sincerely believe that the criticisms are wrong, wouldn't they benefit from putting them on the table and taking a good look at what they are saying and in what ways they might be right or wrong?
0 Replies
 
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Reply Mon 29 Jul, 2019 07:51 pm
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:
I'm the one trying to have an actual discussion about racism, and you're calling me a racist to cut me down? Do you think it's possible that your stance is actually more supportive of racism than mine, even while you accuse me and Trump and whomever else of racism?

Do you actually think (deeply) about racism at all?


You're not having a discussion about racism. You're wanting to support Trump while calling Cummings out for his remarks. That's how you roll, one sided.

I don't have to think about racism, I see it all day, every day.
Real Music
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Jul, 2019 08:21 pm
@livinglava,
CNN's Victor Blackwell tears up defending
hometown over Trump attacks.

CNN's Victor Blackwell became emotional while responding to President Donald Trump's tweets calling
Rep. Elijah Cummings' (D-MD) district a "very dangerous & filthy place" and calls out the President's
repeated use of the word "infested" while attacking minority lawmakers.

Published July 27, 2019
livinglava
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 30 Jul, 2019 06:06 am
@neptuneblue,
neptuneblue wrote:

You're not having a discussion about racism. You're wanting to support Trump while calling Cummings out for his remarks. That's how you roll, one sided.

I don't have to think about racism, I see it all day, every day.

I don't care about Trump or Cummings, except to the extent they have managed to cooperatively raise this issue for public awareness, which is a good thing.

Now you presume a lot about racism, but you're not putting it on the table for discussion; and you're also presuming what I want and "how I roll."

So instead of prejudging me, why don't you go ahead and unpack what each means when they accuse the other of racism so that this can be a thread about racism and not about taking sides with one person against another because of their political party, skin color, or whatever?
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neptuneblue
 
  4  
Reply Tue 30 Jul, 2019 06:13 am
@livinglava,
I'm hardly pre-judging you.

I already know you're a hardcore Trumper and any "discussion" isn't a discussion.
livinglava
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 30 Jul, 2019 06:38 am
@neptuneblue,
neptuneblue wrote:

I'm hardly pre-judging you.

I already know you're a hardcore Trumper and any "discussion" isn't a discussion.

That's a pre-judgment you just expressed.

Assuming I am 'a hardcore Trumper,' as you seem to do, why can't you have a discussion with such a person?

If you are as passionate about your beliefs/politics as you seem to be, I would think you would jump at the opportunity to speak truth to someone you consider desperately in need of enlightenment.

The reality about me, however, is that I'm not for Trump or Cummings either way. All I care about is that their conflict raises the possibility of public discussion/awareness of racism.

You seem to prefer to continue avoiding that discussion by accusing me of 'hardcore Trump support,' so assuming you don't start discussing the topic of racism in your next response, I guess that will just confirm where you stand.
Sturgis
 
  4  
Reply Tue 30 Jul, 2019 02:28 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
...Says things that are racist...I think it's bluster...


which you follow up with:
Quote:
Trump's basic message is clear.
America is for white Christian people. Anyone else needs to adapt...those he considers to be the real Americans.


the above items you said are very straightforward about racism and that he is, without doubt racist, along with other things not directly related to race.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  3  
Reply Tue 30 Jul, 2019 02:31 pm
@livinglava,
That isn't judgement. Your posting history here at a2k shows your leanings. Try owning it.
Baldimo
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 30 Jul, 2019 03:21 pm
@neptuneblue,
Quote:
I already know you're a hardcore Trumper and any "discussion" isn't a discussion.

What you are really saying is "agree with me or I'll call you more nasty names."
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Reply Tue 30 Jul, 2019 03:51 pm
@Baldimo,
Huh.

Didn't realize "hardcore Trumper" was a nasty name.

Learn something new every day...
Baldimo
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 30 Jul, 2019 03:56 pm
@neptuneblue,
Considering how the left uses it... There are always other names that follow though, racist, fascist, bigot and many others.
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Reply Tue 30 Jul, 2019 04:00 pm
@Baldimo,
The shoe fits, you should wear it.
 

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