How Dare We Call It a War!

Way to go, Larry.

Larry...with ya on this one fella.

And as to 'quagmire' and whether one ought to consider Mr. Rumsfeld as a credible source of opinion on the matter, I don't believe him to be objective. Actually, I don't believe him to be much concerned with truth and accuracy either. Nor democracy, come to think of it. Heck, I guess I ought to come straight out and say I think he ought to be taken out back, have his pants pulled down on international TV, and be spanked by a transexual dominatrix.

As for Italgo's suggestion that there weren't any suggestions from Cheney and others that this would be a quickey...
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2003/03/28/cakewalk/index_np.html (seven day free trial, for those no subscribed).

But getting real, 'quagmire' will be defined as a campaign that takes much longer and costs much more in money and lives than the population of the US thinks it was led to believe. Thus, we can predict an ongoing barrage of denials from the administration and pentagon, another on how spiffy everything is (in co-ordination with 'we killed lots of those evil dark bastards this week' heroic battlefield comments), and that a certain segment of the population will be so enthralled with rah rah that nothing short of Rumsfeld's spanking might give them pause.

Fortunately, another (growing) segment of the population of both the US and the world will turn in disgust from this campaign aimed at hegemony.

Based on the 'shock and awe' that is emanating from the White House and the Pentagon on the level of resistance the forces in Iraq have been receiving, I can only conclude that they have either been stupid or evil.

If they are 'adapting' to guerilla warfare because they didn't see it coming, then they were stupid for not planning accordingly for it. If they knew it was coming, but chose not to prepare the American public for it, then they lied to us to drive up support for the war, with their 'weeks, not months' lies.

Manipulating the American public about American casualties must be considered seriously immoral, I think.

So, Bush... evil or stupid? I merely request information.

I notice (and enjoy, I must admit) the rift between the real military and Rumsfeld. I don't like Rumsfeld's childish set-up of Franks in his briefing today. Franks will be the scapegoat.

How is it that "people" in general do not seem to be aware of the smugness, smarminess, and "I-Know-It-All" attitude of Rumsfield? Perhaps there is that same quality of body language in other paternalistic leaders such as.... (oh, noooooooooo, I can't even fill in the obvious blanks here.....!)

Poem of an Iraqi Baby.

Tartarin

I just caught the Rumsfeld answer to a reporter's question about whether 'the plan' might be a bit off..."Well, both I and the President, when we asked senior military about the plan, they all said it was an excellent plan." I gather that's what you refer to. Amazing, isn't it. The advisors were wrong to ok his plan.

Colbalt I could not agree more about Rumsfield. What a snooty manner of speech. He seems to hold so many in contempt. Today he brought up Syria, implying they would pay for supporting Iraq. Now it seems what so many have predicted may come true, we are there to colonize.

cobalt))))

I voted for "invasion," because that's what it actually is. We hear Dubya and Rumsfield wax eloquent about the "coalition of the willing." This coalition is a farce because no more than about five nations, including the United States, are providing any support in this Iraq campaign.

To think that a "coalition" is going along with this tragedy is pure propoganda from the White House. We are at a crucial moment in the history of our nation. We are also about to lose more young lives in battlefields 7,000 miles from home.

Joanne Dorel was correct about Syria. That nation will probably be our next target. Meanwhile, the military effort in Iraq seems to have lost focus. We will not evict Sadaam with "shock and awe" as Dubya and Cheney once thought.

This current invasion will leave the United States as the most hated nation in the world. The other nations in the "axis of evil" -- Iran and North Korea -- had best be ready for Dubya's invasion of their countries.

Iraq -- the 51st of the United States? That was Dubya's hope a week ago: to conquer evil so our "goodness" can prevail. Right now, Dubya knows not which end is up in this unnecessary invasion of Iraq.

WHAT THEY THOUGHT

THE IRAQIs They thought the Americans were going to drop into Bagdad and shoot Saddam. That's why they are a bit pissed off with all the conflicts in Basra and elsewhere. "What are you doing here?" they ask. "Saddam is in Bagdad."

THE AMERICANS ON THE HOMEFRONT They thought that this would be the second television war, six days tops, then pics and flicks of ecstatic Iraqis hugging GI's necks. The Iraqis would be shocked and awed by our techno power and we would monetarily pause to remember the few GIs who died then we would go on with our lives. Right now there is a look of puzzlement on the American face and a trace of impatience floating near the bottom of our conversations.

THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION They thought he'd try to bug out, Saddam that is. They took a head shot at him the first night just to send the message that he is a dead man and that he had better get out of Dodge while he could. The operations structure would then collapse and the other members of Saddam's Neighborhood Association would walk out onto the street and start waving white flags and looking for GI necks to hug. Right now they are re-evaluating the thrust of the campaigns (the one toward Bagdad and the one for 2004) and the depths of Saddam's psychosis.


SADDAM What? Me, worry?



Joe

Hilarious, and right on target as usual, Joe!

One thing, though. Did you really mean that you thought we'd donate money for the GIs who are dying over there? Because I'm running a little low these days myself. How 'bout the rest of you guys?

Or did you mean "momentarily"?

Damn that spellchecker!

Sorry, it's just the editor in me coming out again.

--V

Oh, I forgot to say, my vote on the poll above goes to "invasion." Or at least it would have until the last 48 hours. Now I'd have to say "other." I'm still looking for the right words.

I've thought all along that Bush intended to keep us in some war or other until his reelection was assured. However, the undercurrent of dissatisfaction you mentioned after the latest revelations that this is going to be longer, costlier & deadlier than previously admitted has given me new hope that people may tire of war by Nov. 2004.

One can only hope.

--V

Name Game
What we need are some good commercials, so I can go to the fridge.

What I call it is a "pilot program", a shabby script to start off a horrible mini-series. Ratings can be fudged. Products can be deployed. But I think the American consumer has grown tired of reality shows, and the M.C. has got to go. It's not fun anymore.

Or let's put down the remote control and go outside for a bit.

Williamhenry, Visitor, Joanne, CodeBorg, Joe and all - thanks for your comments. Joe - I especially liked your "What they thought" approach - sadly, it is so transparent to all.

Also, Joe I remember seeing your signature line in one of the sites I frequent. Was it in the Salam Pax blog? Happily, Salam has stopped posting updates for a while. It would only be a matter of time that he would be 'stopped' from blogging by Sadaam's people. I can only hope that he is not found AND that he and his family he writes of are not in the "right place" at the "wrong time"....

Monetarily, momentarily.
(Must remember Spellcheck has no ability to detect meaning.
or it this case poetic irony.)

I don't think I'll change it.

We do, in the course of things, send a GI's widow a sum. There's a scene in Band of Brothers where they show the troops waiting to ship out for another spot in Europe. One guy is doing a handout. The others are sitting around, stuffing their equipment backpacks or staring into space.
"Some of yous," he says, "Haven't filled out your death benefits form. Let's have'em all in now, fill'em out, fill'em out, fill'em out."

http://www.lander.edu/atannenbaum/Tannenbaum%20courses%20folder/POLS%20103%20World%20Politics/103_huntington_clash_of_civilizations_full_text.htm

A Huntington lecture.

I think I got that quote from Salam Pax or one of it's mirrors. Today, I am changing it to one from GW Bush in the debates regarding humbleness and it's necessity when working with nations.

Joe

Sounds like some of the president's men are questioning the STRATEGERY of the war!

I should hope so.

I put 'other' because I believe Bush and his advisors went into Iraq with such arrogance, assuming they could get into and out of there quickly because of their ignorance, or ignoring the complexities in the region. The people who are "for going in are just as out of touch with reality. so I think it's an act of Superpower arrogance, and we will pay heavily for it, and our children will be saddled with the debt.

from Frank;
"Sounds like some of the president's men are
questioning the STRATEGERY of the war!"

But perhaps they should be questioning the strategy of war! (in general)