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How Dare We Call It a War!

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2003 10:41 am
Hey Bo

Look at the word "strategery."

That was not a spelling error.

In any case, I agree with your thought. I also think war sucks as a solution.
0 Replies
 
BoGoWo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2003 11:05 am
funny Frank, my original response contained a comment on your spelling that I edited prior to posting, since it was, I thought, insignificant.

Just shows what I know!
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2003 06:36 am
George Bush explains
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gezzy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2003 06:51 am
Wilso
That about covers it!
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2003 10:31 am
The administration rationalizes that this is a re-opening of the Gulf War because of violations of the treaty. This can be argued until one is exhausted. I'm not as concerned about the success of the invasion (war) as to the aftermath. If the diplomacy was a failure before this action, what can we expect in the future? The liberation of Iraq from Hussein's insane politics will present an administrative and propaganda problem on a scale we've never encountered. How many years before there's a trade deficit with Iraq? That's one huge accomplishment in the outcome of WWII and Japan (not to mention I get the majority of my lighting materials from Germany, Taiwan and Korea!)
0 Replies
 
trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2003 11:27 am
Quote:
The administration rationalizes that this is a re-opening of the Gulf War because of violations of the treaty. This can be argued until one is exhausted.

How can this be argued? Which facts do you call into question?

That the Gulf War ended in a cease fire?

That Saddam failed to live up to his commitments within that cease fire?

That renewed hostilities are always a potential consequence of breaking a cease fire?

Help me out here. Which of these do you claim is untrue?
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2003 12:07 pm
Possibly it's true, Tres, but that doesn't make it right, does it?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2003 12:10 pm
In response to Lightwizard, Tresspasser wrote:

trespassers will wrote:
Quote:
The administration rationalizes that this is a re-opening of the Gulf War because of violations of the treaty. This can be argued until one is exhausted.

How can this be argued? Which facts do you call into question?

That the Gulf War ended in a cease fire?

That Saddam failed to live up to his commitments within that cease fire?

That renewed hostilities are always a potential consequence of breaking a cease fire?

Help me out here. Which of these do you claim is untrue?


COMMENTS:

Seems to me that it really doesn't matter whether any of Tresspassers claims are true or untrue. Light Wizards's comment is reasonable and logical without regard to those statements.

Tresspasser's statements are red herrings.

The administration was not entrusted with responsibility to decide if the ceasefire commitments were being met or not.. That responsibility still lay with the Security Council.-- and I needn't remind Tresspasser that the Security Council did not decide any failures were sufficient to demand force.

The administrations protestations that this is a re-opening of the Gulf War are exactly what Light Wizard said they are - rationalizations.

So, Tresspasser, why are you throwing red herrings into this discussion?
0 Replies
 
cobalt
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2003 06:40 pm
This may be a definite straying from the present focus of replies, but I have had a thought pop in that I'd appreciate some comment on.

Years ago, Billie Holiday recorded a song called "Strange Fruit" and the song was celebrated and condemned. The message applied to lynching, as an evil part of American society. Now I suppose that the concept of actual "lynchings" is quite outmoded, yet we have entirely new evils withing the American society. The one I am thinking of (of course!) is the thirst for revenge by the current American governmental administration.

If one were to record a a similar but new song about THIS particular evil, imagine the uproar! And, if it could be done, would it help to prevent future administrations from taking on another war with pre-emptive strike rationalized?
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JoanneDorel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2003 07:18 pm
Madonna did a anti war song and a video and it has already been pulled.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2003 08:40 pm
Both Cobalt and JoanneDorel make excellent, scary points.

Worse, we don't need the government to restrict our liberties: we have our media and our neighbors.

America dumbed itself down -- no question about it.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2003 10:17 pm
Strange Fruit is a beautiful bit of writing. Anything of that calibre would go quite over the heads of those fellas to whom it was directed.
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trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2003 11:41 pm
Tartarin wrote:
Possibly it's true, Tres, but that doesn't make it right, does it?

What???

Perhaps you mean to write, "maybe it's true, but I don't have to like it".

Yes, I think that's what you meant.
0 Replies
 
trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2003 11:44 pm
JoanneDorel wrote:
Madonna did a anti war song and a video and it has already been pulled.

It wasn't "pulled". It sucked and no one wanted to hear it.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Apr, 2003 12:00 am
I believe just the US release was put off, out of sensibility of the current national temper. That no doubt will hype the thing here. Clever, those marketing folks. Then, that's why they're rich, I suppose. Their success is notorious. So is their taste. How dare we call it Entertainment?
0 Replies
 
ATAXIA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Apr, 2003 01:02 am
Is Madonna an English resident now of American. Who was the anti-war levelled at Bush or Blair?
0 Replies
 
williamhenry3
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Apr, 2003 10:30 pm
How many wars will Dubya launch before the end of his presidency in 2005? Remember, his words after 9-11-01 were to the effect that either you're for us or against us.

The implication here, of course, is that it is un-American to be "against us." Rights guaranteed by the First Amendment will be put on hold until Dubya leaves office.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Apr, 2003 11:20 pm
It's these kinds of statements, "you're either for us or against us" that demonstrate the simple minded concrete thinking that will always be associated with GW. This will be his legacy.
0 Replies
 
trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Apr, 2003 01:04 am
Lola wrote:
It's these kinds of statements, "you're either for us or against us" that demonstrate the simple minded concrete thinking that will always be associated with GW. This will be his legacy.

Let's explore this for a moment, Lola.

The context of the statement in question was regarding the fight against terrorism. Within that context I see an absolute need for decisive, unequivocal language such as Bush chose.

But putting that aside for a moment I'd really like to know what other option--in the context of the global fight against terrorism--is there? Since you think Bush was wrong to state that other nations and groups must choose a side in the war on terror, tell me what third (or fourth) option you think he was wrong to leave out.

Perhaps you would have had him say that others were "either for us or against us, or possibly just planning to sit on the sidelines and see how things shake out".

What should he have said?
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Apr, 2003 01:58 am
Way too easy tress. He should have said "you are either for terror or against terror". Not wanting to side with the US does not preclude a desire to combat terrorism.

The logic you used is only sound if:

"us" always = not terroism + against terrorism

"against us" always = terrorism
0 Replies
 
 

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