George Galloway blasts the Senate

The Chamberlain of Augustus the Strong recorded in his private journal that the King (Augustus was the elected King of Poland) once asked him how many bastards were receiving a pension from him. The minister replied that he believed the figure was 355. Sometimes a gentleman's indiscretions reach proportions such that he could not make the tally independently even if he lacked the necessary discretion . . .

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discretion, what a wonderful word

Hoft

no problem, I'm quite impressed actually how Galloway keeps popping up in this thread despite the provocations

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I hardly know where to begin, LordBadSpinOnAllThat'sAmerican, as you've managed to criticize just about everything except Mom and her apple pie although I'll stay posted for those addenda.

But to pick and choose my way through your tizzy:

Lord Ellpus wrote:

... I'm thinking OJ Simpson, Michael Jackson,

What can you say about OJ that's not been said already? 95.61239% (that one's for you McT) of Americans believe he killed his wife. The prosecution relied on a surferboy, a racist cop, & a shrunken glove handing the defense the small challenge of planting doubt in the jury's minds. All-in-all the system worked for OJ, but not Nicole. Ditto Jackson. Conniving mother, child caught in lies. 99.3251889% of Americans know Michael likes little boys way too much, but again the defense had fairly easy pickings.

and wrote:

the "third strike" system, leading to horrendously long prison sentences for relatively minor offences,

I'll give you that one, but what should be done with these chronic abusers? Perhaps we should just transport them to a penal colony in Australia for a lifetime of exile ...

and wrote:

the attempts to withdraw the teaching of evolution in schools,

I don't think this will ever happen. I've always felt a good teacher teaches his students to think. One then presents the opposing theories and allows the student to make up his/her mind.

and wrote:

the worrying amount of power that religeon has in the USA,

Why shouldn't it? Are you advocating squelching freedom of speech to these groups?

and wrote:

the biased News and Media programmes,

This criticism always amuses me as it conjures memories of pre-cable life a la Kennedy assassination, Gemini liftoffs, Nixon addresses, etc. when one's three (3) VHF channels were monopolized by the same coverage. There was no other choice on the television (or radio.) Today we have satellite dishes, broadband, and the internet with the blog of your choice. For God's sake, we watch Blair duking it out with MP's in a similar version of C-Span. Do you honestly believe 81.4444446% of Americans rely on Fox News? If so, I'll cling to my image of you hovering over your parcheesi board, pipe in hand, waiting for the government report on the wireless.

and wrote:

the lack of open, unscripted debate between your politicians on live TV..............

We do have the presidential & vice-presidential debates which can get a little dicey. Still, it's widely agreed (59.00003%) that Abraham Lincoln wouldn't have stood a chance on live TV ... high-pitched and nasal, they say ...

and concluded when he wrote:

Maybe I should reconsider?.......NOPE, I still think that you deserve at least fifth place.

Which brings me back to one of my premises ... should we change our way of life to suit a few disgruntled Brits? Monday next, we'll mark the 229th anniversary of the decision to that question.

Gosh, LordOfPatienceAndAdmirableUnderstanding ... I didn't even make it to your Galloway concerns. That shall be my goal. Until then, I'll leave you with the thoughts of one of Ohio's "finest":

http://www.thememoryhole.org/traficant/

To me, Mr. Galloway is but a bland replica of Mr. Traficant ... but with better hair.

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Disclaimer:

This is a picture from Portsmouth, England, where they're celebrating the 200th anniversary of the battle of Trafalgar and it has no connection to Galloway or any other posts on this thread; I just love ships!

http://s.tf1.fr/mmdia/i/33/4/2038334_5.jpg

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Lord Ellpus wrote:

ME:-
"making accusations against the character of a democratically elected British Member of Parliament, in the most scathing of language. The accusor then has to sit there on live worldwide TV, as that maligned (to date there is STILL no evidence) person thoroughly humiliates him (and the USA in the process) by ripping him apart."

Whooda replied:-
"I can positively hear Union Jacks snapping in the breeze here, Lord E.
See JTT's comments RE Oklahoma twisters ..."

So, Whooda.....please be good enough to tell me what was factually innacurate about my statement, and how you consider it as "spin"?

Or is it ACTUALLY the case that people are presumed guilty in the USA, without hard evidence, and the accused then has to prove his/ her innocence?

Maybe I should revise my ranking for the USA after all, eh?

Lord: 'Twasn't that anything was factually inaccurate. 'Twas your choice of verbiage. It nearly had me reaching for the tissues as I envisioned poor Galloway, our guest from shores afar, enduring those horrendous attacks ... like Dorothy, the meek and mild, before Oz ... or more likely ... Tiny Tim, leaning on his little cane, before any number of scoundrels.

As for the facts, I vote with others here. Galloway is most likely guilty, to some degree or another, but never to be proven unless the committee chooses to give up its sources which is highly unlikely for such small fry.

So, yes, the evil senators made a foolish move and your dog had his day. It was reported, the sun set, and it rose again the next day.

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portsmouth is the place for ship lovers everywhere today.

USS Saipan
Charles de Gaulle
I think the Spanish have sent a galleon or two.

even saw a few rubber dingies protecting the fleet from Osama bin Laden.

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HofT wrote:

Disclaimer:

This is a picture from Portsmouth, England, where they're celebrating the 200th anniversary of the battle of Trafalgar and it has no connection to Galloway or any other posts on this thread; I just love ships!

Ships and planes, Helen, ships and planes. We recently returned from a trip to northern Michigan where I always make a point of watching the oil and grain freighters move through the locks at Sault Saint Marie. A freighter from Bombay loaded with grain from Duluth was going through this year. They're rather lowly in comparison to what you've posted, but they fascinate me just the same.

And I think one of the freighters was named The Galloway ... :wink:

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Lord Ellpus wrote:

... Yes, Whooda, it WAS my perception, also (IMO) that of about 95% of the UK population who were given their proper freedom of speech and "open" TV privileges, to be able to watch the Galloway "interview", in its entirety, on national TV.
How many national, mainstream channels screened the entire, uncut interview in the USA, I wonder?
Whoever watched the whole thing, wherever they were in the world, would have had to have been a thoroughly brainwashed Bushite, not to have recognized that Galloway came out the clear winner.

......and I dont even like the guy, but I feel that nobody should be allowed to get away with such slandering, and act with such comfortable arrogance, as that Senator did in that report. If he had evidence, he would have presented it by now. Surely it doesnt take the mighty workings of the FBI and CIA THIS long to manufacture something.

That Senator is dead in the water.

Again, Lord, I think this is more of a cultural issue rather than a freedom of speech violation. I can't imagine any "national, mainstream channel" presenting the "entire, uncut interview" for the simple reason that there would be no audience. It wasn't Watergate. It wasn't the Reagan funeral. It wasn't the Challenger explosion. It was what it was and it was given the appropriate level of coverage. Those who had a heightened level of interest could certainly find the uncut coverage, but to assume networks should preempt other programming is just ludicrous.

As for the senator being "dead in the water," he may have looked foolish during the bluster, but I doubt his reelection prospects have been diminished.

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I guess that's it, Lord. Have at it.

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Setanta wrote:

The Chamberlain of Augustus the Strong recorded in his private journal that the King (Augustus was the elected King of Poland) once asked him how many bastards were receiving a pension from him. The minister replied that he believed the figure was 355. Sometimes a gentleman's indiscretions reach proportions such that he could not make the tally independently even if he lacked the necessary discretion . . .

Accountants, who know the price of everything, and the value of nothing. Bean-counters. Sorry, bastards. Ah, me.

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HofT wrote:

Disclaimer:

This is a picture from Portsmouth, England, where they're celebrating the 200th anniversary of the battle of Trafalgar and it has no connection to Galloway or any other posts on this thread; I just love ships!

I can do it in only two degrees: Portsmouth- Big Mouth- George Galloway.

(joke...I don't think he was wrong)

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Quote:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/18113

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Well that's an interesting article.

As a point of interest, some few Humvees are sold here (the street-ready kind) for domestic use. But these are either viewed in an ironic way (by their owners) or mocked/vilified (by others)

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HofT wrote:

Disclaimer:

This is a picture from Portsmouth, England, where they're celebrating the 200th anniversary of the battle of Trafalgar and it has no connection to Galloway or any other posts on this thread; I just love ships!

I just love ships too. Many of this island race are down at Portsmouth today, to see the review and the sail-past, and the TV news is full of it this evening.
Lovely. I have been on a few of the tall ships while moored at Leith, and have an ambition to take a voyage on one before I am much older.

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blatham wrote:

In a country no longer supreme in most other fields of human endeavor, war and warriors have become the last, enduring symbols of American dominance and the American way of life. "In war, it seemed," writes Bacevich, "lay America's true comparative advantage."

So America is even criticized for opening its markets and sending its steel industries, electronics industries, textile industries, and fill-in-the-blank industries packing to Third World workers?

No competitive edge in anything but war-making?

Those who subscribe to such cynical beliefs will settle for nothing less than seeing this country eviscerated economically and politically.

Like it or not, they are increasingly responsible for the bunker mentality that grows here.

Someone mentioned this earlier, and I agree. Why should this country help the Lilliputians tie their ropes?

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Note who makes the criticism, Whoodathunk.

Quote:

"Bacevich is a graduate of West Point, a Vietnam veteran, and a conservative Catholic who now directs the study of international relations at Boston University."

Let me quote another part from the article...

Quote:

This is the point. Those of us who truly love the ideals and the dream of America (and I am one) are deeply horrified at the possible, and increasingly likely, consequences of the direction America has moved, particularly under this administration. America now tortures people. What does that mean for those people in the world who thought perhaps they might make their own countries on the model of America? Who thought a just and free and humane culture was possible for them too? Who hoped that if they tried to get there, America might help them.

Now, something like 110,000 Iraqis have been killed by American forces. How many wounded, maimed or have seen their children's bodies blown apart? Some 70,000 Iraqis have been incarcerated, without trial, in often more horrid conditions than you and I can imagine, and almost all of them completely innocent civilians.

The world has seen this happen. The world has come to understand, as Americans now are coming to understand, that this entire project was initiated upon purposeful deceits.

The world has seen this administration betray international agreements and conventions which it had itself initiated. The world has seen this administration act with such selfishness and corruption...for how else might they understand the constant obstruction of environmental accords by a government so intimately connected to the petroleum industries and to the huge corporations which profit, and profiting they indeed are, from war?

And the world understands that denials regarding the Iraq war and Iraq's oil supplies are perhaps not to be believed.

The tragedy here is potentially very great indeed.

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That's right. The quotation from the Spanish man was very poignant.

A tragedy has already unfolded, the country has changed utterly, and it is a puzzle to me that more intelligent right-wing Americans can't see this, or won't admit it.

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McT, Isn't intelligent and right-wing an oxymoron? Sorry, couldn't resist. Wink

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A Spaniard who grew up under Franco did not see any real political nightmares. The real political nightmares of his youth were all in Nazi Germany, Facist Italy, Vichy France, the Soviet Union and the ravaged and occupied countries of Central Europe.

At the height of his power, after the fall of France and before either The Battle of Britain or the invasion of the USSR, Hitler travelled to the Pyrenees to meet Franco at the French frontier. He offered Franco Gibraltar and French territories in North Africa in return for Spain's assistance in the war. Franco refused and made it clear that Spain would resist any German advance into his country. He also observed to the Nazi dictator that he was offering gifts which he didn't himself posess. He did get rid of his own crazy Nazi sympathizers b y organizing them in the mostly forgotten "Blue" division which he sent off to join the Russian campaign, from which it never returned. Hitler returned across France by train, sulked in bitter confusion for a few weeks, and then started the air campaign against Britain. Franco was no fool.

I recognize this contradicts the sappy "unquestioned truths" and holy writ of progressive true believers. However, it is the real truth.

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Well, when the Vichy puppet regime was established, Franco adopted a pro-Axis position, allowing e.g. German ships to use Spanish harbours.

Recently, I translated some German textes fror an English PhD-candidate in history about the División Azul - seems to me that you can take different views about the Blue Division.

Spain became only neutral again, when Germany was on the loosing way in 1943.

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George Galloway blasts the Senate

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