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George Galloway blasts the Senate

 
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2005 04:22 pm
this is not steveoil41food
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2005 07:36 pm
Who is George Galloway? (I believe his 15 minutes are up.)
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 02:22 am
On a university lecture tour of the US, or soon to be, influencing young minds.

Like unto a voice
Crying in the wilderness
"Prepare ye the way of the Lord
Make straight in the desert
A highway for our God"
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 04:37 am
georgeob1 wrote:
Who is George Galloway? (I believe his 15 minutes are up.)


It's certainly not the first time you've been wrong, George? Smile
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 04:58 am
I think that neither of you are being mindful of the menagerie of oddities he will join on that lecture circuit. I agree, there may be some entertainment value, but as for the rest ....

I should, perhaps, take JTT more seriously on his last point. He does know a good deal about being wrong.
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 05:10 am
georgeob1 wrote:
I think that neither of you are being mindful of the menagerie of oddities he will join on that lecture circuit. I agree, there may be some entertainment value, but as for the rest ....

Funny George, that the Senate felt the need to remove his testimony from their site. Was it ever put back up? I think the truth will be handled in much the same way that's it's been handled for the last number of years, with limited spin, pressure to not report and above all else, lie, lie, lie and then lie again.

I should, perhaps, take JTT more seriously on his last point. He does know a good deal about being wrong.

Touche, mon ami.

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 05:39 am
For an excellent example of this conservative doublespeak, this constant nattering, making full and frequent use of talking points, false talking points at that, see the video of Brit Hume turning into a mumbling idiot.

When pressed to defend these falsehoods, when pressed to actually think about what he was saying, he looked on the verge of tears.

[I've been wondering why the posts from some conservative backers here at A2K have been rather damp of late; now I know]

If you pay careful attention, you'll notice clearly, that all Brit's talking points mirror those that have been laid out here for the last few months by Tico, McG, Lash, georgeob1, Finn, have I forgotten anyone?

Video available in WMP and Real Audio at,

http://www.crooksandliars.com/

entitled, "When Conservatives Collide"

It's a keeper. It's so right on!
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 06:38 am
JTT wrote:
For an excellent example of this conservative doublespeak, this constant nattering, making full and frequent use of talking points, false talking points at that, see the video of Brit Hume turning into a mumbling idiot.

When pressed to defend these falsehoods, when pressed to actually think about what he was saying, he looked on the verge of tears.

If you pay careful attention, you'll notice clearly, that all Brit's talking points mirror those that have been laid out here for the last few months by Tico, McG, Lash, georgeob1, Finn, have I forgotten anyone?
!


I don't see that your link in any way supports the point(s) you make above. It appears to me that Kristol & Hume disagreed about an arguable point. No big deal. One who regards that as a triumphant moment, is a bit .... desperate.

As for the rest, if you continue your quest for education and wisdom, you will find that truth and right understanding are indeed remarkably consistent. It is error and sophistry that yields the cacophany and inconsistent disorder of "progressive" views.

The web site you linked was very biased and at best a superficial collection of gossip and inuendo. Not a good source for continued education - predigested snippets of biased reporting - somewwhat like a diet of taco chips, salty & tasty, but not good for you..
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 07:17 am
georgeob1 wrote:
JTT wrote:
For an excellent example of this conservative doublespeak, this constant nattering, making full and frequent use of talking points, false talking points at that, see the video of Brit Hume turning into a mumbling idiot.

When pressed to defend these falsehoods, when pressed to actually think about what he was saying, he looked on the verge of tears.

If you pay careful attention, you'll notice clearly, that all Brit's talking points mirror those that have been laid out here for the last few months by Tico, McG, Lash, georgeob1, Finn, have I forgotten anyone?
!


I don't see that your link in any way supports the point(s) you make above. It appears to me that Kristol & Hume disagreed about an arguable point. No big deal. One who regards that as a triumphant moment, is a bit .... desperate.

I'm not at all surprised that you feel this way, George. As you've clearly expressed before, you are blind in your devotion.

As for the rest, if you continue your quest for education and wisdom, you will find that truth and right understanding are indeed remarkably consistent. It is error and sophistry that yields the cacophany and inconsistent disorder of "progressive" views.

If I'm not mistaken, it's the progressive views that seek to shut down such these "prisons". It's the progressive view that seeks accountability for a host of alleged "fabrications".

It's the progressive view that seems to be coming to pass, ie. you can't treat people in the fashion they've been treated and expect thinking people to blindly give their support. [note, I said "thinking people"]



The web site you linked was very biased and at best a superficial collection of gossip and inuendo. Not a good source for continued education - predigested snippets of biased reporting - somewwhat like a diet of taco chips, salty & tasty, but not good for you..

Tico's tried that line of illogic already. How can a series of videos, many from Fox be biased? There was, on the video in question, [why do we always have to keep dragging you conservatives back to the issues?] a discussion of the issues, one that has been much discussed here.

At least two of the four were conservatives. Who was that lady in the red dress? It doesn't matter, left or right; note how she laid bare the oft repeated lie, [raised again by Hume] that this is "a group of lefties/America bashers who are bringing up these issues"; completely false.

And I must note yet again that you've failed to address any substantive issue.


0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 08:57 am
Were there any substantive issues there? Perhaps I missed them.

The criticisms we are getting about the prision in Gitmo will continue even if we close that facility. We must have some place in which to confine these people and others like them, and we wuill be criricised no matter where we keep them.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 09:06 am
People like what?
Have any charges been laid yet?
After which, we can proceed to trial.
Until then, they are people like you and me. But being differently treated.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 01:07 pm
People who elect to join international Islamist terror organizations and wage war against us either directly or our forces in the field. Think of them as IRA gunmen and Guantanamo as Maise (Sp?).
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 04:12 pm
The Maze prison, Belfast?

IRA gunmen shoot people. If there were any such charges to bring against the Gitmo men, let them be brought.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 04:36 pm
During the '70s and '80s IRA men were held in Maze without charges or trial for similar extended periods. Did you oppose that as well?

The people in Guantanamo shot people too.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 03:01 am
georgeob1 wrote:
During the '70s and '80s IRA men were held in Maze without charges or trial for similar extended periods. Did you oppose that as well?

The people in Guantanamo shot people too.


a) yes I did, and it also proved to be a very counter-productive tactic

b) we have yet to see if that is the case. Let the charges be brought. Plenty of counter-charges have been aired here.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 04:55 am
These people were captured in battles in Afghanistan - many in paramilitary units organized by al Quada. We are fighting a war with them. The "countercharges" raised here don't count for much - at least in the eyes of serious people who are responsible for protecting our security.

Did you as actively protest the imprisonment of Irishmen in Northern Ireland?

You would cast yourself in a better light if you would begin to acknowledge in your many, often bitter criticisms of the United States that your country has repeatedly and consistently done precisely the same thing when confronted with similar threats and circumstances - an done so very recently, in an historical sense. There is a word for such meaningful omissions - hypocrisy.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 06:28 am
Hypocrisy cuts two ways George. Who was it tossing coins in the buckets going round the bars of Boston and New York?

Did you know the largest single bomb attack on British soil (including 2 world wars) was when the IRA blew up Manchester city centre?
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 06:53 am
It wasn't just bars and it wasn't just Boston and New York. The Irish are the largest single ethnic group in this country. As a boy I played Irish football for a team in what was then called the Gaelic League. Fundraisers for the IRA were a common thing across the country - from Washington DC to San francisco. It may be difficult for you to understand the attitudes of the Irish who came to this country in such great numbers, but they generally had very little good to say about England. The fact is that Americans have come to understand that the extant remnant of the IRA is no longer a justifiable revolutionary body. All that is left is a bunch of thugs and killers who just do what they do. Support here for the IRA twenty-five years ago was a good thing, just as is ending it now.

I do indeed count it as rank hypocrisy for Englishmen who condemn our treatment of al Quada prisoners as a matter of principle, but who ignore precisely the same actions on the part of their government just twenty-five years ago - and far, far worse in other colonial actions.

For me it isn't a matter of principle at all. It is a war and the object of war is victory. In war one should, within reasonable limits, use all necessary means. Guantanamo passes that test easily.
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 07:10 am
georgeob1 wrote:
These people were captured in battles in Afghanistan - many in paramilitary units organized by al Quada.

One has to wonder whether your intelligence on this has been any better than, oh, pick any intelligence that has been bandied about. Sorry, maybe I have that backwards; maybe the intelligence has been okay, it's just been twisted badly for nefarious purposes.

How many thousands have been interned; convictions, where? somewhere around 30 or 40?


We are fighting a war with them. The "countercharges" raised here don't count for much - at least in the eyes of serious people who are responsible for protecting our security.

These countercharges are beginning to have some effect on thinking people, though clearly not much effect on those who occupy the opposing camp.


You would cast yourself in a better light if you would begin to acknowledge in your many, often bitter criticisms of the United States that your country has repeatedly and consistently done precisely the same thing when confronted with similar threats and circumstances - an done so very recently, in an historical sense. There is a word for such meaningful omissions - hypocrisy.

Take a quick gander in the mirror, George. Dictionary meaning of hypocrisy!


0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 07:23 am
My argument with Guantanamo is that its counter productive. It sends out a recruiting call on behalf of bin Laden. Why do you do this?

Internment without trial was wrong in N Ireland and it is wrong in the American Gulag.

The information we obtained by torturing prisoners in Ireland was about as useful as the info. you guys have obtained by doing the same at Gitmo. i.e. worthless.

Of course I understand why lots of Irish Americans felt there was no harm in helping the boys in the old country. But it was interesting that IRA funds from the US dried up almost completely after 911, as the Americans learned a hard lesson in what urban terrorism means.

I can also understand why many Irish feel resentment against Britain. Can you understand why so many Muslims were dancing in the streets when the twin towers came down?
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