Newsweek Lied, People Died

Quote:

So, a number of Osama bin Laden's buddies find Gitmo relatively comfortable. They provide intelligence that helps U.S. and European soldiers, spies, and cops keep themselves and us alive. Meanwhile, many detainees ache to get out, so they can kill Americans.

That's the Pentagon's story, anyway. They have yet to retract it.[/size]

Quote:

May 27, 2005, 8:09 a.m.
Not-So-Bad Gitmo
There's an alternative report.

While Newsweek has retracted its deadly tall tale about interrogators shoving the Koran down a toilet to rattle Guantanamo detainees, the magazine's "flush to judgment" fits what Manhattan Institute scholar Heather MacDonald calls the prevailing "torture narrative." Possibly harmless Muslims languish without trial in U.S. custody. America's soul dies a little as each GI's sucker-punch shatters one more Arab's jaw. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

Here's a great example of your narrowmindedness, Tico {Lash, Rayban, Gunga, ...}. Why haven't any of you apologists pointed out that Newsweek, in all probability, hasn't lied at all, but it's probable that Scotty [quick beam me outta here] & the WH has.

[I'm prepared to stipulate that overall, the POWs in this war are being treated pretty fair, the food may well be even better than what they're used to [it's hard to order in when you're in the middle of Afghanistan fighting a war.]

Now can we get back to the issue at hand. The issue isn't about all the good stuff being done. A lifetime of good police work won't save a cop from murder/theft/rape charges.


Amnesty International Wednesday called Gitmo "the Gulag of our times."

Pretty apt comparison in many respects, especially the political ones. Not a good comparison in the social ones. My belief is that if pressed, the spokesperson for AI would have made this clear.


Journalists and Bushophobes should stop crying for these Islamo-fascists long enough to read a largely overlooked Pentagon document on Guantanamo detainees. They appear pampered, chatty, and lethal.

"Americans are very kind people," one English-challenged detainee said in the March 4 paper. "If people say there is mistreatment in Cuba with the detainees, those type speaking are wrong, they treat us like a Muslim not a detainee."

"I'm in good health and have good facilities of eating, drinking, living, and playing," remarked another. "The food is good, the bedrooms are clean and the health care is very good."

"English-challenged"? This reporter doesn't have a clue about language but that's a separate issue.


In a February 16 Gitmo dispatch, an American Forces Press Service report described the treatment of Camp Delta's roughly 520 detainees from about 40 nations. Troublemakers wear prison-style orange jumpsuits and mainly are confined to rudimentary accommodations. But those who follow camp rules wear white outfits and exercise seven to nine hours daily, often playing soccer and volleyball. In quieter moments, "chess, checkers and playing cards are the most requested items," Rhem wrote. As for reading, "A security official explained Agatha Christie books in Arabic are very popular and that camp officials are working to get copies of Harry Potter books in Arabic."

Detainees eat culturally sensitive meals and follow arrows painted on dorm floors to face Mecca. "Prayer calls are broadcast over loudspeakers five times a day," Rhem added.


All fine things. This has been so stipulated.

Despite this apparent cooperation, enemy combatants remain viciously anti-American and dedicated to mayhem, even after release.

"I will arrange for the kidnapping and execution of US citizens living in Saudi Arabia," one detainee threatened, if freed. "They will have their heads cut off."

"There is no need to ask for forgiveness for killing a Jew," another said. "Israel should not exist and be removed from Palestine."

One detainee reportedly warned that "upon his release from GTMO, he would use the Internet to search for the names and faces of MPs so that he could kill them."

Among 167 detainees freed from Guantanamo, the Pentagon has identified "about 12" who have resumed terrorist operations. Last October, two Chinese engineers were kidnapped in Pakistan. "Former detainee Abdullah Mahsud, their reputed leader, ordered the kidnapping," the report states.

"Another released detainee assassinated an Afghan judge," the document continues. "Several former GTMO detainees have been killed in combat with U.S. soldiers and Coalition forces."

So, a number of Osama bin Laden's buddies find Gitmo relatively comfortable. They provide intelligence that helps U.S. and European soldiers, spies, and cops keep themselves and us alive. Meanwhile, many detainees ache to get out, so they can kill Americans.

Why would anyone acted shocked at this behavior, as if it should be at all surprising? US movies, folklore, TV is full of stories of war prisoners escaping to wreak havoc on their captors. This is applauded time and again as a brave and honorable thing to do.

Idiots like Arnold and Syl have made careers exploiting this very thing. Why is it so inconceivable that some of "them" should hold to the same values?

Let me be exceedingly clear here; I'm not defending the killing of Americans or Brits or Australians or anyone else in the "coalition". But how easily we deny to others the same thing we applaud in ourselves. Does anyone really think for a moment that "they" have no legitimate quarrel with certain western countries and their past and present policies?

Why would anyone acted shocked at this behavior, as if it should be at all surprising? US movies, folklore, TV is full of stories of war prisoners escaping to wreak havoc on their captors. This is applauded time and again as a brave and honorable thing to do.

Idiots like Arnold and Syl have made careers exploiting this very thing. Why is it so inconceivable that some of "them" should hold to the same values?

Let me be exceedingly clear here; I'm not defending the killing of Americans or Brits or Australians or anyone else in the "coalition". But how easily we deny to others the same thing we applaud in ourselves. Does anyone really think for a moment that "they" have no legitimate quarrel with certain western countries and their past and present policies?

Quote:

Why would anyone acted shocked at this behavior, as if it should be at all surprising? US movies, folklore, TV is full of stories of war prisoners escaping to wreak havoc on their captors. This is applauded time and again as a brave and honorable thing to do.

Idiots like Arnold and Syl have made careers exploiting this very thing. Why is it so inconceivable that some of "them" should hold to the same values?

Let me be exceedingly clear here; I'm not defending the killing of Americans or Brits or Australians or anyone else in the "coalition". But how easily we deny to others the same thing we applaud in ourselves. Does anyone really think for a moment that "they" have no legitimate quarrel with certain western countries and their past and present policies?

You seem to frequently articulate a disdain for American pop culture. Are you one of those who cited quotes from Arnold's movies against him as he ran for Governator? You are able to distinguish between real and make believe, right?

Instead of addressing the questions, you fly off on a tangent, Tico. Have you been briefed by Rayban? Whoa boy, back to the topics;

1. Why is it so inconceivable that some of "them" should hold to the same values?

2. Does anyone really think for a moment that "they" have no legitimate quarrel with certain western countries and their past and present policies?


I'm amazed that I would have to spell this out for you, but we're not talking about these prisoners escaping to wreak havoc. We're talking about releasing these prisoners after a hearing before a military tribunal, whereupon they promptly go out to attack America and friends.

And I'm amazed that I have to spell this out for YOU. I've gotten the notion, though you do your damndest to dispel it every time you open your mouth, that you're an officer of the court, to wit, a lawyer. Maybe that's too big an assumption to make so let's just go with, Tico's an average Joe.

"We're talking about releasing these prisoners after a hearing before a military tribunal,"

Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the practice of releasing these folks, is it?

Are you suggesting that the opposite, no hearings, would be a ringing endorsement for the American way? What are the purposes of hearings, Tico? Even military ones?

Can you even consider, even momentarily, that an "innocent", after X years of unjustified imprisonment, might well change?

Do you realize that as good as they are, our court and penal systems are far from perfect? Nobody will ever commit another crime if we keep everyone locked up forever.

Do you honestly, honestly I said, think that we're going to fix the overall terrorist problem by maintaining "gulags" {definition: a prison maintained for political purposes}?

Um ... no, I didn't.

But when you typed "Syl" I did assume you meant Rambo.

Ticomaya wrote:

Um ... no, I didn't.

But when you typed "Syl" I did assume you meant Rambo.

Wheeeeew! That's a heavy burden that's been lifted off my shoulders, Tico. Now, about those questions?

JTT wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:

Um ... no, I didn't.

But when you typed "Syl" I did assume you meant Rambo.

Wheeeeew! That's a heavy burden that's been lifted off my shoulders, Tico. Now, about those questions?

I'd presumed they were, like mine, rhetorical.

Tico:
You seem to frequently articulate a disdain for American pop culture.

1) Are you one of those who cited quotes from Arnold's movies against him as he ran for Governator?

No, I am not.

2) You are able to distinguish between real and make believe, right?

Perfectly capable, I assure you, Tico.



Questions for you, Tico:

1. Why is it so inconceivable that some of "them" should hold to the same values?

2. Does anyone really think for a moment that "they" have no legitimate quarrel with certain western countries and their past and present policies?


I'm amazed that I would have to spell this out for you, but we're not talking about these prisoners escaping to wreak havoc. We're talking about releasing these prisoners after a hearing before a military tribunal, whereupon they promptly go out to attack America and friends.

And I'm amazed that I have to spell this out for YOU. They were released after a HEARING. What is it about this you didn't understand. They are your own words, Tico.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the practice of releasing these folks, is it?


1) Are you suggesting that the opposite, no hearings, would be a ringing endorsement for the American way?

2) What are the purposes of hearings, Tico? Even military ones?

3) Can you even consider, even momentarily, that an "innocent", after X years of unjustified imprisonment, might well change in their thinking?

4) Do you realize that as good as they are, our court and penal systems are far from perfect? Walter gave a figure for the number released, was it 38? No matter.

5) Do you propose that everyone caught in the sweep should be held indefinitely?

6) Does this fit your definition of justice? Is it reflective of your vision of America?

7) Do you honestly, honestly I said, think that we're going to fix the overall terrorist problem by maintaining "gulags" {definition: a prison maintained for political purposes}?

Ticomaya wrote:

JTT wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:

Um ... no, I didn't.

But when you typed "Syl" I did assume you meant Rambo.

Wheeeeew! That's a heavy burden that's been lifted off my shoulders, Tico. Now, about those questions?

I'd presumed they were, like mine, rhetorical.

No you didn't Tico, but nice try. Maybe I spoke too quickly. Perhaps it was a freudian slip. Ah, let's leave that for now. It looks like I DO have to spell it out for you, Tico.

Tico:
You seem to frequently articulate a disdain for American pop culture.

1) Are you one of those who cited quotes from Arnold's movies against him as he ran for Governator?

No, I am not.

2) You are able to distinguish between real and make believe, right?

Perfectly capable, I assure you, Tico.



Questions for you, Tico:

1. Why is it so inconceivable that some of "them" should hold to the same values?

2. Does anyone really think for a moment that "they" have no legitimate quarrel with certain western countries and their past and present policies?

I'm amazed that I would have to spell this out for you, but we're not talking about these prisoners escaping to wreak havoc. We're talking about releasing these prisoners after a hearing before a military tribunal, whereupon they promptly go out to attack America and friends.

And I'm amazed that I have to spell this out for YOU. They were released after a HEARING. What is it about this you didn't understand. They are your own words, Tico.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the practice of releasing these folks, is it?


1) Are you suggesting that the opposite, no hearings, would be a ringing endorsement for the American way?

2) What are the purposes of hearings, Tico? Even military ones?

3) Can you even consider, even momentarily, that an "innocent", after X years of unjustified imprisonment, might well change in their thinking?

4) Do you realize that as good as they are, our court and penal systems are far from perfect? Walter gave a figure for the number released, was it 38? No matter.

5) Do you propose that everyone caught in the sweep should be held indefinitely?

6) Does this fit your definition of justice? Is it reflective of your vision of America?

7) Do you honestly, honestly I said, think that we're going to fix the overall terrorist problem by maintaining "gulags" {definition: a prison maintained for political purposes}?

if america is to be the world leader in this century, it must be by example.

so far, this century, we ain't doin' so hot. can't expect everybody else to be "transparent" and then refuse to do the same.

"macy's don't tell gimble's" as the saying goes, is fine when it comes to certain proprietary information vital to security. but, to have macy's insist that gimble's open the books and then do any and everything but reciprocate is what other nations are busting us on.

we're losing footing and the pedestal is starting to wobble.

214 years to get there and only 5 to blow it.

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

if america is to be the world leader in this century, it must be by example.

so far, this century, we ain't doin' so hot. can't expect everybody else to be "transparent" and then refuse to do the same.

"macy's don't tell gimble's" as the saying goes, is fine when it comes to certain proprietary information vital to security. but, to have macy's insist that gimble's open the books and then do any and everything but reciprocate is what other nations are busting us on.

we're losing footing and the pedestal is starting to wobble.

214 years to get there and only 5 to blow it.

And the consequences of 1 WMD being used in Los Angelese - ever - would be???

You forgot "Clinton's a liar."

Ticomaya wrote:

You forgot "Clinton's a liar."

thanks tico ! i had a nagging feeling that there was something i missed !


(dude, check out limewire. there's a couple of old pf boots floating around as albumwraps. just type in "albumwrap" in the title box, hit enter. they are of various sound quality, but pretty interesting in a historical way. :wink: )

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:

You forgot "Clinton's a liar."

thanks tico ! i had a nagging feeling that there was something i missed !


(dude, check out limewire. there's a couple of old pf boots floating around as albumwraps. just type in "albumwrap" in the title box, hit enter. they are of various sound quality, but pretty interesting in a historical way. :wink: )

Thanks DTOM. Just got my broadband working at home again, and Limewire works sporadically (although it does seem to crash my router. )
I'll check into that tonight.