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Can Souls in Hell be Forgiven and Saved and Go to Heaven?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2016 01:32 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Nosy is good - if you learn from it. Wink
0 Replies
 
Harry Blake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2016 04:45 pm
@neologist,
asked- "So, you do realized that the soul is mortal . . . . Or, do you?"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you mean the soul dies, Jesus says it doesn't, so you'd better argue it out with him when you meet him..Smile

"everlasting fire" Matt 18:8, 25:41
"eternal damnation" Mark 3:29
"the fire that never shall be quenched" Mark 9:43, 45
"Where their worm dieth not" Mark 9:44, 46, 48
"everlasting punishment" Matt 25:46

Harry Blake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2016 04:53 pm
@neologist,
said- "Or, Jesus was having mental lapses when he quoted from the "Old T"?
For that matter, why would Paul quote from the "Old T"? Especially when he was inspired to say at 2 Timothy 3:16 " . . . all scripture is inspired of God . . ."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

We all quote from the OT because there's some good stuff in it, but let's not forget that although God "inspired" people to write it, they nevertheless struggled at times to put his words into easily-understood human language, so we have to make allowances for that and not to hang onto every word, or we risk taking things out of context.
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord" (Isaiah 55:8)

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2016 05:51 pm
@Harry Blake,
How about,
Quote:
New International Version
So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2016 07:45 pm
@Harry Blake,
Hmm.
But have you stopped to consider what Jesus is talking about where the worm never dies and the fire is never put out? Are those consigned to such a place actually conscious?

I'm asking you this because you have not gone far enough in your research.

Hint: Valley of Hinnom.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2016 08:00 pm
@Harry Blake,
Perhaps God is testing you, Harry. And the test consists of presenting you and others with two conflicting scenarios, and then watching to see which one you go with. One scenario offers you a picture of a god who is loving, compassionate, and merciful. The other scenario offers you a picture of a god who is wrathful and vindictive to the extent that it has prepared an eternally lasting torture chamber for lesser beings than itself who reject its love and fail to return it.

The test is to discover whether your idea of power involves the capacity to instill fear and to inflict pain, or the capacity to project love and to promote well-being. I trust I don't have to tell you which choice will indicate your failure of the test.

Also, you fail the test if you attempt to cheat by way of assigning diametrically opposed qualities to God.

cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2016 08:11 pm
@Glennn,
Simply put; does a loving god need to include a threat of hell?
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2016 08:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
In fact, does a god need anything?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2016 08:30 pm
@Glennn,
God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son....
0 Replies
 
Harry Blake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2016 08:57 pm
@Glennn,
said- "Perhaps God is testing you, Harry...two conflicting scenarios, and then watching to see which one you go with. One scenario offers you a picture of a god who is loving, compassionate, and merciful. The other scenario offers you a picture of a god who is wrathful and vindictive"
--------------------------------------------------------------

The "test" for all of us is whether we accept or reject Jesus..Smile
God sent a string of prophets and Jesus to help people get their act together so there's nothing more he can do, because if they didn't want God and Jesus when they were alive, there's nowhere for their souls to go when their bodies die and they're therefore sending themselves to hell, whether it's eternal fire or cold blackness.
I mean, if Jesus-rejecters were let into heaven it'd be a case of "oops there goes the neighbourhood", and it's not going to happen..Smile
They had their chance-
"Your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish" (Matt 18:14)
"For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day" (John 6:40)

Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2016 09:00 pm
@Harry Blake,
So, the god is able to create beings, but when it comes to destroying them, it is powerless?
Harry Blake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2016 09:07 pm
@neologist,
said "But have you stopped to consider what Jesus is talking about where the worm never dies and the fire is never put out? Are those consigned to such a place actually conscious?
I'm asking you this because you have not gone far enough in your research.
Hint: Valley of Hinnom".

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Instead of offering us "hints", why don't you simply tell us what your own view is of what happens to us after our bodies die, then we can take it from there, or is it a divine secret that's only been revealed to you?..Wink
Harry Blake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2016 09:10 pm
@Glennn,
said- "So, the god is able to create beings, but when it comes to destroying them, it is powerless?"
-----------------------------------

Not sure I understand what you mean. He wiped out Sodom/Gomorrah easily enough..Wink
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2016 09:13 pm
@Harry Blake,
You said that there is nowhere for the souls to go after the death of the body. Therefore, it must be true that the god is able to create beings, but when it comes to destroying them, it is powerless.
Harry Blake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2016 09:20 pm
@Glennn,
said- "You said that there is nowhere for the souls to go after the death of the body. Therefore, it must be true that the god is able to create beings, but when it comes to destroying them, it is powerless"
-----------------------------------------------------------

Why should he want to destroy godless souls? He's washed his hands of them.
But all this is academic, because if you're a Christian you've got absolutely nothing to worry about..Wink
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2016 09:27 pm
@Harry Blake,
The question wasn't why it would want to destroy godless souls. The point was: if there is nowhere for the souls to go after the death of the body, it must be true that the god is able to create beings, but when it comes to destroying them, it is powerless.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2016 09:37 pm
@Glennn,
Christians blame it all on Satan. He's the god of hell. LOL
Harry Blake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2016 09:50 pm
@Glennn,
said-"The question wasn't why it would want to destroy godless souls. The point was: if there is nowhere for the souls to go after the death of the body, it must be true that the god is able to create beings, but when it comes to destroying them, it is powerless"
----------------------------------------------------

If you're a bouncer in a nightclub and you sling some bums out into the dark street and wash your hands of them that's it, why should you want to kill them?
"..cast out into the outer darkness" (Matt 8:12)
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2016 09:55 pm
@Harry Blake,
Forgetting for the moment that you have offered an analogy comparing the god to a bouncer, I'll just say that it appears that you're dodging the question. Let me rephrase it. If you're the god who created the beings who have not made the grade, why would you want to torment them or burn them alive for eternity?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2016 10:00 pm
@Glennn,
Good question. I saw this contradiction early in life when we were attending a christian church. Why would a loving god who gave his only begotten son let unbelievers burn in hell forever? My siblings are still christians.
 

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