ISLAM Q&A

hungry hippo,

hungry hippo wrote:

And I quote myself from earlier in this thread:
"I also viewed a link to "Allahs wrath" (posted in this thread), where it was stated that Allah had punished the non believers and destroyed all the buildings expect from the mosks. But I seriously hope that most muslims do not share this view. Thousands of innocent little babies have been killed by these natural disasters. To state that this is Allahs will would mean that Allah is willing to kill babies of random non-muslims. I belive i have heard a muslim call the assumption that Allahs will is involved in killing little innocent babies would be considered the worst kind of blasphemy. "

Mulslims as well as Christians and atheists died because of this tragedy. It is estimated that 118,000 people died because of the tsunamis that day. To say that this is Gods will is macabre and sick. You are so horribly wrong.

As human beings, we have a very limited knowledge compared to almighty God. Something which seems to be bad for us may very well be good in God's sight, and God knows everything, He is the only one who knows good from bad.
The following story (from Chapter Al-Kahf(The Cave) of the Glorious Qur'an) illustrates this:

One day, Prophet Moses (Peace be upon him) delivered such an impressive sermon that all who heard it were deeply moved. Someone in the congregation asked: "O Messenger of Allah, is there another man on earth more learned than you?" Moses (Peace be upon him) replied: "No!", believing so, as Allah had given him the power of miracles and honored him with the Torah.

However, Allah revealed to Moses (Peace be upon him) that no man could know all there is to know, nor would one messenger alone be the custodian of all knowledge. There would always be another who knew what others did not. Moses (Peace be upon him) asked Allah: "O Allah, where is this man? I would like to meet him and learn from him." He also asked for a sign to this person's identity.

Allah almighty instructed him to take a live fish in a water-filled vessel. Where the fish disappeared, he would find the man he sought. Moses (Peace be upon him) set out on his journey, accompanied by a young man (Joshua) who carried the vessel with the fish. They reached a place where two rivers met and decided to rest there. Instantly, Moses (Peace be upon him) fell asleep.

While he was asleep, his companion saw the fish wriggle out of the vessel into the river and swim away. However, he forgot to relate this incident to Moses. When he awoke, they continued their journey until they were exhausted and hungry. Moses (Peace be upon him) asked for his morning meal. Only then did his companion recall that the fish they had brought with them had got away. Hearing this, Moses (Peace be upon him) exclaimed: "This is exactly what we are seeking!"

They hurriedly retraced their steps to the place where the rivers met and where the fish had jumped out. There they found a man, his face partly covered with a hood. His bearing showed he was a saintly man. He was Al-Khidr, the guide.

Allah the Almighty narrated: «And (remember) when Moses said to his boy-servant: "I will not give up (travelling) until I reach the junction of the two seas or (until) I spend years and years in travelling."

But when they reached the junction of the two seas, they forgot their fish, and it took its way throughout the sea as in a tunnel. So when they had passed further on (beyond that fixed place), Moses said to his boy-servant: "Bring us our morning meal; truly, we have suffered much fatigue in this, our journey."

He said: "Do you remember when we betook ourselves to the rock? I indeed forgot the fish, none but Satan made me forget to remember it. It took its course into the sea in a strange (way)!"

(Moses) said: "That is what we have been seeking." So they went back retracing their footsteps.

Then they found one of Our slaves, unto whom We had bestowed mercy from Us, and whom We had taught knowledge from Us.

Moses said to him (Khidr) "May I follow you so that you teach me something of that knowledge (guidance and true path) which you have been taught (by Allah)?"

He (Khidr) said: "Verily! You will not be able to have patience with me! And how can you have patience about a thing which you know not?"

Moses said: "If Allah will, you will find me patient, and I will not disobey you in aught."

He (Khidr) said: "Then, if you follow me, ask me not about anything till I myself mention it to you."

So they both proceeded, till, when they were in the ship, he (Khidr) scuttled it. Moses said: "Have you scuttled it in order to drown its people? Verily, you have done Imra - a Munkar (evil, bad, dreadful) thing."

He (Khidr) said: "Did I not tell you, that you would not be able to have patience with me?"

(Moses) said: "Call me not to account for what I forgot, and be not hard upon me for my affair (with you)."

Then they both proceeded, till they met a boy, he (Khidr) killed him. Moses said: "Have you killed an innocent person who had killed none? Verily, you have done Nukra a great Munkar (prohibited, evil, dreadful) thing!"

(Khidr) said: "Did I not tell you that you can have no patience with me?"

(Moses) said: "If I ask you anything after this, keep me not in your company, you have received an excuse from me."

Then they both proceeded, till, when they came to the people of a town, they asked them for food, but they refused to entertain them. Then they found therein a wall about to collapse and he (Khidr) set it up straight. (Moses) said: "If you had wished, surely you could have taken wages for it!"

(Khidr) said: "This is the parting between me and you, I will tell you the interpretation of (those) things over which you were unable to hold patience:

"As for the ship, it belonged to poor people working in the sea. So I wished to make a defective damage in it, as there was a king after them who seized every ship by force.

"And as for the boy, his parents were believers, and we feared lest he should oppress them by rebellion and disbelief. So we intended that their Lord should change him for them for one better in righteousness and near to mercy.

"And as for the wall, it belonged to two orphan boys in the town; and there was under it a treasure belonging to them; and their father was a righteous man, and your Lord intended that they should attain their age of full strength and take out their treasure as a mercy from your Lord. And I did it not of my own accord. That is the interpretation of those (things) over which you could not hold patience.»

[From the Glorious Qur'an 18:60-82]

And Allah knows best.

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muslim1 wrote:

Doctor S wrote:
I applaud your effort to present me with what you find to be convincing proof that god exist and is in in fact your god, Allah.

Allah is indeed my God, and also your God and the God of the Heavens and the Earth.

Doctor S wrote:
Here you are trying to draw a parallel between a man made and operated vehicle and the cosmos.
The main problem here is that your premise assumes your conclusion, thus making it circulus en demonstrato.
The assumed premise is that the earth is a created thing, created for a purpose, and operates according to that purpose. There has been no evidence presented to suggest these things.

So according to you, the earth is not a created thing? Nor it is made for a purpose? Nor you are created?

Doctor, how did you come into being? From pure nothingness? That is impossible.

A biological process that started with my dad gettin' freaky with my mom.

Quote:

We know very well, that man cannot create another man.

I guess you've never seen frankenstein.
Smile

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If he could do that, the moment he died he would have created himself back. If his relatives would have died, he would have got them back to life. Human beings cannot even create living creature as such as fly, leave aside human being.

So what?

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Next question: What are the other possibilities that remain? That you came into existence "by chance" or "by nature". However, the scientific person that you are, you're far more intelligent than chance or nature (which have no intelligence at all) and it's not logical that you could be designed by chance or nature.

Evolution.

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No other possibility remains except that you have a Creator.

Non sequitur

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"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators?
Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they have no firm belief."
[Glorious Qur'an 52:35-36]

And the great spagetti monster wiggled his center tentacle and the heavens and the earth came to be! Glory! -Book of Pasta, 7:11

Quote:

And Allah knows best.

The spagetti monster can beat up allah.

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Muslim1, leave this Satanist alone, he has no hope -let the Devil mislead throughout his miserable life.

"The likeness of those who disbelieve is that of someone who yells out to something which cannot hear - it is nothing but a cry and a call. Deaf - dumb - blind. They do not use their intellects." (Surat al-Baqara: 171)

"Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you (O Muhammad Peace be upon him ) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.

Allâh has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearings, (i.e. they are closed from accepting Allâh's Guidance), and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be a great torment." (Surah Al-Baqarah:6-7)

"And when they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe," but when they are alone with their Shayâtin (devils - polytheists, hypocrites, etc.), they say: "Truly, we are with you; verily, we were but mocking."

Allâh mocks at them and gives them increase in their wrong-doings to wander blindly.

These are they who have purchased error for guidance, so their commerce was profitless. And they were not guided.

Their likeness is as the likeness of one who kindled a fire; then, when it lighted all around him, Allâh took away their light and left them in darkness. (So) they could not see.

They are deaf, dumb, and blind, so they return not (to the Right Path).

Or like a rainstorm from the sky, wherein is darkness, thunder, and lightning. They thrust their fingers in their ears to keep out the stunning thunderclap for fear of death. But Allâh ever encompasses the disbelievers (i.e. Allâh will gather them all together).

The lightning almost snatches away their sight, whenever it flashes for them, they walk therein, and when darkness covers them, they stand still. And if Allâh willed, He could have taken away their hearing and their sight. Certainly, Allâh has power over all things." (Surat al-Baqara:14-20)

"If anyone contends with the Messenger even after guidance has been plainly conveyed to him, and follows a path other than that becoming to men of Faith, We shall leave him in the path he has chosen, and consign him to Hell: an evil refuge." (An-Nisa, 115)

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Yes I have a question.

What is wrong with ali87? Please look at some of his exchanges on this forum.

Is this what Islam is?

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Raul-7 wrote:

Muslim1, leave this Satanist alone, he has no hope -let the Devil mislead throughout his miserable life.

Raul you know you should have more respect for other people's religious beliefs. You dont like it when someone insults your religion. The church of the flying spaghetti monster can get pretty pissed too. You really dont want that noodly appendage fingering you do you?

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He will be sorry when he has to spend an eternity in lasagna hell, tormented day in and day out in meat sauce hotter than a thousand suns.
Praise be to The most High Pasta, may his noodly appendage touch your heart.

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Doktor S wrote:

Praise be to The most High Pasta, may his noodly appendage touch your heart.

Thank you Dr S. And may the sauce be with you.

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Is there any Muslim here who can perhaps explain how Islam is not hostile to the idea of freedom of expression?

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Anonymouse wrote:

Is there any Muslim here who can perhaps explain how Islam is not hostile to the idea of freedom of expression?

I guess not.

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Anonymouse wrote:

Is there any Muslim here who can perhaps explain how Islam is not hostile to the idea of freedom of expression?

Hey, This is a really good one. Where the hell did all the Muslims go first there was a whole sh!t load and then all of a sudden they were gone?

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Anonymouse wrote:

Is there any Muslim here who can perhaps explain how Islam is not hostile to the idea of freedom of expression?

Does Islam permit freedom of expression? Well... It depends upon the situation - I cannot give a blanket... yes or no.

If the freedom of expression is given - for anyone to say something good, Islam gives full permission, as long as it does not harm anyone. If he/she wants to criticize or accuse anyone, he/she has to bring proof for that.

1) He/She can say anything, as long as it does not harm anyone.

2) If it harms anyone: Abusing anyone with proof or without proof... just for slandering, is not allowed in Islam. For example: God says: "Do not call each other by offensive nicknames" [Glorious Qur'an 49:11].

3) Now, if you speak against someone with proof, it is allowed. For example: If I am working in a company, suppose it is corrupted, I am speaking against it, Islam gives me full freedom of expression to do this. I should go and say that 'This company is corrupted, that it is cheating the human beings, etc...' with proof. But I cannot say 'The boss is cheating' without proof, in this case I have got no right. If I allege anything against any human being, I must have proof.

An important issue regarding the freedom of expression in Islam is the following: if a person puts even a small allegation against a woman's chastity, against her modesty, Islam says 'Produce four witnesses - If the person cannot, he gets eighty lashes'. Islam is the only way of life that protects the chastity of girls, not like non-muslim environments where women's dignity is not respected at all.

Another example: if I am working in the army. Suppose I have got proof about its secret - I cannot go and sell it to the enemy. So here, freedom of expression is not allowed, even with proof. If it causes loss to the people who are working, if it is against the Nation, Islam does not give permission.

So there is nothing like "unlimited freedom of expression". There is nothing like "law-less freedom of expression".

Islam believes in the freedom of expression but with the restrictions and laws made by the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth.

And Allah knows best.

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muslim1 wrote:

Anonymouse wrote:
Is there any Muslim here who can perhaps explain how Islam is not hostile to the idea of freedom of expression?

Does Islam permit freedom of expression? Well... It depends upon the situation - I cannot give a blanket... yes or no.

If the freedom of expression is given - for anyone to say something good, Islam gives full permission, as long as it does not harm anyone. If he/she wants to criticize or accuse anyone, he/she has to bring proof for that.

1) He/She can say anything, as long as it does not harm anyone.

2) If it harms anyone: Abusing anyone with proof or without proof... just for slandering, is not allowed in Islam. For example: God says: "Do not call each other by offensive nicknames" [Glorious Qur'an 49:11].

3) Now, if you speak against someone with proof, it is allowed. For example: If I am working in a company, suppose it is corrupted, I am speaking against it, Islam gives me full freedom of expression to do this. I should go and say that 'This company is corrupted, that it is cheating the human beings, etc...' with proof. But I cannot say 'The boss is cheating' without proof, in this case I have got no right. If I allege anything against any human being, I must have proof.

An important issue regarding the freedom of expression in Islam is the following: if a person puts even a small allegation against a woman's chastity, against her modesty, Islam says 'Produce four witnesses - If the person cannot, he gets eighty lashes'. Islam is the only way of life that protects the chastity of girls, not like non-muslim environments where women's dignity is not respected at all.

Another example: if I am working in the army. Suppose I have got proof about its secret - I cannot go and sell it to the enemy. So here, freedom of expression is not allowed, even with proof. If it causes loss to the people who are working, if it is against the Nation, Islam does not give permission.

So there is nothing like "unlimited freedom of expression". There is nothing like "law-less freedom of expression".

Islam believes in the freedom of expression but with the restrictions and laws made by the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth.

And Allah knows best.

I understand your point, and thanks for the illumination of the notion of free speech within the context of Islam. However, my question was aimed more in terms of external criticism, such as, criticising not from within Islam, but from outside of Islam. For example, the cartoons portraying Muhammed are seen as blasphemous in Islam. I understand Islam wanting to proscribe the portrayal of the prophet to avoid idolatry, but isn't the prophet simply a messenger from God and not an icon in itself?

With the way most of the Muslims across the world responded, it seems as if they are guilty of the same thing they are trying to avoid, namely, making an idol out of the prophet. However, to me it seems that this secular notion of free speech is not found in Islam or Islamic societies. I am a believer in God, but I also believe in an unlimited freedom of expression. I am a self-styled libertarian, or anarchist, and as such it is important for me personally not to have any group, idea, or government tell me what I can or cannot state or believe.

Now I realize the hypocrisy of European society. By all means, it is hypocritical and portrays nothing more than an anti-Islam bias to print such cartoons. I defend the right of the publishing of those cartoons, not so much because they are insulting to many Muslims, or because the publishers showed anti-Islamic bias, but because I believe in the concept of unhindered and uninhibited free speech.

With that said, I understand that in Europe there are 'hate crime laws' which I am thoroughly against. There are laws that prevent the questioning of the Holocaust. In many Western European countries you can be fined and/or jailed and/or exiled for expressing unpopular and negative views regarding the Holocaust or Jews. I believe this is hypocritical and contrary to the notion of 'free speech' the Danish newspaper used as an argument to defend it's right to publish cartoons.

However, my main approach to this comes from a more secular context, the belief that nothing is beyond human questioning, human jokes, mockery, satire, all the things that make a society rich and complex and allow for the progression of ideas to make new breakthroughs. I do not believe any society which shuns the free and unhindered flow of information can exist beyond subsistence. Unfortunately, the so called champions of 'free speech' (namely Europe and America) are going down the tubes with their hypocrisy.

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Right now British historian David Irving is awaiting sentence in an Austrian court for "denying" gas chambers at Auschwitz...18 years ago. However he now says he's had a change of heart. But if the court lets him go, he will be straight off to Iran to explain why, in his view the Holocaust never happened. What nonsense is this?

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Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

Right now British historian David Irving is awaiting sentence in an Austrian court for "denying" gas chambers at Auschwitz...18 years ago. However he now says he's had a change of heart. But if the court lets him go, he will be straight off to Iran to explain why, in his view the Holocaust never happened. What nonsense is this?

What's wrong? Is freedom of expresson bad? Why can't people express their opinions, such as Irving, without being jailed, fined, and/or exiled? It seems hypocritical for Europeans and Americans to call on Muslims and their fanatical response over cartoons, and using freedom of expression to defend themselves, yet when someone questions the Holocaust they have to be persecuted? Where is the outcry over that?

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Anonymouse wrote:

Why can't people express their opinions, such as Irving, without being jailed, fined, and/or exiled?

I agree absolutely that they should be able to speak freely. I was referring to the trial being a nonsense. But there is such a thing as incitement. Did Irving mean to stir up trouble? I dont know. But you can understand why Germany and Austria are very sensitive on this issue. Actually Irving has only himself to blame. He went out of his way to assert his right of free speech over- in his view- petty Austrian laws, and not surprisingly the Austrian judge saw it differently.

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Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

I agree absolutely that they should be able to speak freely. I was referring to the trial being a nonsense. But there is such a thing as incitement. Did Irving mean to stir up trouble? I dont know.

I agree, although I would add that, the point about incitement is useless since the only way we can ever know that is if we know the true motives of what is going on inside the mind of that person. Since we aren't psychics, all such attempts will be based on conjecture.

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

But you can understand why Germany and Austria are very sensitive on this issue. Actually Irving has only himself to blame. He went out of his way to assert his right of free speech over- in his view- petty Austrian laws, and not surprisingly the Austrian judge saw it differently.

I see why Germany and Austria are sensitive to the issue. But I also see that they have nothing to worry about. This hang up with "another Hitler" is so silly it doesn't even need addressing. Mind you that no one would allow it, and mind you Germany is among the many European nations which is well on its way to multicultural/multiracial utopia.

Furthermore, people like Hitler, or rather, Hitler himself, was not an accident my friend. Such a person was allowed to rise, and wasn't simply happenstance. But then again, some will call this conspiracy, and shun it aside. Only those brave enough to explore will see the patterns.

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muslim1 wrote:

God almighty gave you more than this: He created you, He protected you in the womb of your mother, He created conditions for you so you are an educated person, He gave you a brain, a heart... Do you think it is fair from your part to deny your (and my) Creator's existence?

Does Allah tell you to NOT believe in anything other than him be it science or humanity or seeking betterment in judgement. If you cannot see beyond yourself, you cannot improve. If you think what you know is right and nothing can make it wrong then you continue being where you are, not progressing any further. So if your religion preaches you to do what has been told thousands of years back and you still do it without questioning, if it really harms others, then I am afraid you are living in a world which is thousands of years old. This is not religion in my opinion. This has already become blind faith.

I am not against any religion but to use the name of god for every thing that happens on this earth (killing innocents, blowing off wtc, tsunami, Kashmir) is a little dragging it too far.

A muslim lady was covered in black from head to toe in the scroching heat of florida, in the month of may, in disneyworld. Where as her husband was happily hopping around in shorts and floaters. Explain that. That lady must have been burning inside. But does your Allah care for her? Had he, he would have asked her to wear more comfortable attire.

Anonymouse wrote:

Unfortunately, the so called champions of 'free speech' (namely Europe and America) are going down the tubes with their hypocrisy.

I agree. Again in my opinion, no religion preaches for crime and terrorism. Some people who claim to be the follower of that religion use the religion in the wrong sense and preach such. So may be is the case with Islam. Something like, George Bush blew off Iraq and he is a Christian. But slamming Christianity because George Bush blew of Iraq will be so illogical.

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LoveMyFamily wrote:

Explain that. That lady must have been burning inside.

Did you ask her? Do you have a proof that she was "burning inside"? On the contrary, the sister must have been extremely happy since she was pleasing and obeying her Lord. May God Almighty reward her for wearing those clothes.

LoveMyFamily, the optimal joy for every Muslim in this life is to obey his/her Creator.

PS: Your nickname reminds me of an important creed in Islam called "Silat-ur-Rahim", which means keeping ties with one's family, visiting them, treating them in the best of ways, giving them money if they need, being kind to them... Indeed, God Almighty says: "Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess: For Allah loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious" [Glorious Qur'an 4:36]
And the Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Whosever desires to have expansion in his sustenance and a prolonged life, should treat his relatives with kindness." [Reported by Imams Bukhari and Muslim]

I truly encourage you to love your family.

And Allah knows best.

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She was surely burning inside because that is all you can do in Florida in the month of May if you do not have a personal airconditioner fitted to your clothes. And I am sure she indicated no signs of carrying a personal air conditioner with her. But I would not ask her if she was happy wearing it. Because she has to be since Allah asked her to. Would she risk her life saying she was not happy doing it. Or does she have a free will to choose the attire she is comfortable in. I guess not because Allah has decided her attire for her.

muslim1, I truly respect your religion and all the other religions but I do not agree with what "you" are saying. The way you put it, it seems like you cannot have a will or opinion of your own, because Allah is the only one who decides everything for you. She must have been happy wearing a black overall because Allah wanted her to.. what kind of a reasoning is that?

Does your Allah approve of her husband's wearing shorts? Could you quote a line from Quran which says it is OK for men to be scantily dressed and show off their hairy legs while it is not right for women?

Yes my religion also preaches me to love my family and all the other human beings on this earth. My religion does not tell me, that the ones who do not follow my religion are apostates and need to be punished. My religion teaches me to respect other religions and human beings as well. My religion teaches me to forgive the offenders and not to seek revenge and punishment. My religion does not ask me to blow of wtc and kill innocents in Kashmir as punishment.

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