Somebody remarked to me over the weekend that you can look at the entire globe, and anywhere you find the majority as muslim, you will find that country has had a long standing internal war between groups. Essentially, anywhere there's muslims, brutal killings, internal war and opression is woven into the fabric of daily life. Is this true or are there peaceful muslim nations?
You're proceeding from a logical falacy ... the one has nothing to do with the other. How many Catholic nations would pass your test? Not too many in Latin America, not Spain or Ireland, nor Greece, Cyprus, or Malta. How many nations populated predominantly by those of Sub-Sahara African descent would pass your test? Not too many anywhere. How many current or former Communist nations could pass your test? Not very many there, either, are there? How many Asian nations would pass your test, or Third World nations, or emergent democracies?
What you've got there is a prejudice, not a premis.
My Two Cents
If we listen very closely we can identify a similar line of rhetoric that the Muslim (or so-called?) terrorists employ and the former vulgar Marxists employed. Both of them (Muslim and Marxist) argue vehemently for an establishment of a utopian, Hegelian state. I believe what we have here is a nationalist phenomenon that was prevalent in the Cold War, but reincarnated itself into religion (Islam). (Religion is more concrete and has more substance than, say, secular nationalism)
--Ibn
0 Replies
timberlandko
3
Tue 1 Jun, 2004 07:37 pm
Well, the Maltese have been fairly respectable and quiet for the last couple hundred years or so, at least since they evicted Bonapart and joined the British Commonwealth, but you never know .... :wink:
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no logo
1
Tue 1 Jun, 2004 07:46 pm
Hey Timber what about Malaysia - that's peaceful Muslim nation. Certianly far less crime than the United States - which u certainly couldn't call peaceful.
Jemaah Islamiyah, Abu Sayyaf and Google ... give it a shot, no logo. I'd be curious, too, to see valid, comprehensive, objective statistics showing Malaysia's overall crime rate compared to that of The US ... or the overall crime rate of The US as compared to just about any other nation. Overall crime rate, mind you ... not limited to a few specific categories. There are plenty of places on the planet where one has a far greater chance of being kidnapped or mugged or raped or murdered than in The US ... not that that has squat to do either with ideology or theology.
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dagmaraka
1
Tue 1 Jun, 2004 09:21 pm
there is a different price for crime, too. while here you may or may not go to prison, in sri lanka (just an example, i actually have no real clue) they may cut your hand off, for example, so you'd think twice. hard and unfair to compare. i opt for higher crime rate in such case.
Wouldn't be surprised a bit, Adrian ... I'm pretty familiar with the stats. You're comment re "willingness to report" bears consideration, too, as does the willingness, and capability, of the legal establishment to follow up on reports. Much of what occupies the desk and pavement time of Western World law enforcement never gets into the system in some places.
no logo, The US is no more nor less perfect than most other countries ... just richer, more powerful, more stable, more envied, and more attractive to would-be immigrants than any other.
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Portal Star
-1
Wed 2 Jun, 2004 08:04 am
the Islamic religion is not a peaceful one, so if the muslim nation is peaceful it probably isn't interpreting it's religion properly.
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dagmaraka
4
Wed 2 Jun, 2004 09:04 am
Islamic religion itself is no more violent than Christian religion. Bible has passages that ok slavery, subordination of women, or violent punishments. Lots of wars and crusades were waged in the name of the bible. It is all in people's heads and hearts. The fact that most Christian societies gave up on warring with each other and adopted democratic practices stems from their social, economic and cultural transformations. Quran is peaceful when interpreted by peace-desiring people. And there are many islamic pacifists. Also many moslims writing about and striving for democracy and human rights.
the Islamic religion is not a peaceful one, so if the muslim nation is peaceful it probably isn't interpreting it's religion properly.
Sugary nonsense!
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Rick d Israeli
2
Wed 2 Jun, 2004 12:19 pm
< Sits back and watches how another never-ending discussion is starting >
0 Replies
Portal Star
1
Wed 2 Jun, 2004 01:06 pm
dagmaraka wrote:
Islamic religion itself is no more violent than Christian religion. Bible has passages that ok slavery, subordination of women, or violent punishments. Lots of wars and crusades were waged in the name of the bible. It is all in people's heads and hearts. The fact that most Christian societies gave up on warring with each other and adopted democratic practices stems from their social, economic and cultural transformations. Quran is peaceful when interpreted by peace-desiring people. And there are many islamic pacifists. Also many moslims writing about and striving for democracy and human rights.
I didn't say anything about the bible being peaceful. I don't consider it to be as violent as the Quaran. I certainly don't consider certain sects of buddhism to be violent. These are things that can be compared. Jesus wanted his followers to "turn the other cheek." Muhammed wants to use force to convert others to what he considers the true religion.
The Quaran repeatedly and expressly tells its followers to murder and go to war for various reasons. This is why it is not peaceful. Have you ever read the Quaran?
Yes I did and I do not see it the way you do at all.
0 Replies
Ibn kumuna
1
Wed 2 Jun, 2004 04:31 pm
Portal Star wrote:
I didn't say anything about the bible being peaceful. I don't consider it to be as violent as the Quaran. I certainly don't consider certain sects of buddhism to be violent. These are things that can be compared. Jesus wanted his followers to "turn the other cheek." Muhammed wants to use force to convert others to what he considers the true religion. ?
What about the Old Testament?
Portal Star wrote:
The Quaran repeatedly and expressly tells its followers to murder and go to war for various reasons. This is why it is not peaceful. Have you ever read the Quaran?
Yes! And again, like others, you synchronistically read the Quran on militarialistic terms.
0 Replies
QKid
1
Thu 3 Jun, 2004 01:57 pm
portal,
Can u show me the verses from the Quran where it is so violent? The ones u are talking about on this post. I want to see that you make statements with its evidence. Or else, everyone should believe me when I say I ate breakfast with Elvis at my home.
I mean, I know your point and it's excellent one as I said, but you confused me 
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