Futurist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Dec, 2005 06:13 pm
Islam has many things contrary to bible about Jesus, it is Satan masquerade angle.
We christians do not believe the angel Gabriel had sent messages to Mohammad, Mohammad had met the masqueraded angle.

I read the English Quran, it is badly written, not chroniclely, everything not in good sequence.
0 Replies
 
Raul-7
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Dec, 2005 07:37 pm
Bartikus wrote:
I have a question regarding Islam. True Islam.

Does Islam believe in the possibility of reincarnation or resurrection?


No, not the same way Hindus believe in - there is no such thing. Every human that was/is on this Earth will be resurrected on the Day of Judgement to recieve their fate.

Jesus was brought up to God; he was not killed. One of the major signs of Judgement Day is when Jesus returns to Earth to slay Al-Dajjal (Anti-Christ).

http://www.ehalal.net/Islam/Judgement.htm
0 Replies
 
Futurist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Dec, 2005 11:23 pm
Quote:
Jesus was brought up to God; he was not killed. One of the major signs of Judgement Day is when Jesus returns to Earth to slay Al-Dajjal (Anti-Christ).
This is the deceipt of the Devil, if Jesus did not truly die on the cross, then there is no atonement of sin thru his precious blood to meet God's requirement.
The New Testament was perfectly written and compiled long before mohammad, the theology of Christology was established firmly, how can we trust Quran instead?
0 Replies
 
Raul-7
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 01:34 am
Quote:
The New Testament was perfectly written and compiled long before mohammad, the theology of Christology was established firmly, how can we trust Quran instead?


Because God vowed that the Quran would never be changed untill the day of Judgement; not even by a letter. Unlike the many versions of the Torah and Bible; there is only one version of the Quran.

I don't know English translations of the Quran to prove your first point wrong, but I'm sure brother 'muslim1' does. God has stated in the Quran to something of the extent: they believe he was crucified, for that is false, rather that was someone who looked like him; for we have saved him and brought him up to the heavens.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 01:41 am
Acts 2:6~ Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:2 ~ For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.

These are just two places in the Bible that tell of Christ's crucifixion.

Perhaps you were not aware that every word of the Bible is God-breathed and God-inspired? The Word of God is divinely protected by God.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 08:47 am
Raul-7 wrote:
....the Quran would never be changed untill the day of Judgement; not even by a letter.....
This is just not true. There are early Koranic texts dating from the 8th and 9th centuries AD which do indeed differ from the modern text. And whilst I'm on the subject how come NO Koranic texts date from the time of Mohammed himself? If the scribes wrote everything down that Mohammed said was from angel Gabriel where is it? These scribes wrote down for the first time, so we are told the perfect word of God. Yet it wasnt preserved!! Did they lose it? Throw it away maybe? Or is it that nothing exists from the time of Mohammed because the whole story of the founding of Islam is mythology like many other religions.
0 Replies
 
muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 09:33 am
Thank you Futurist for your questions and remarks,

Futurist wrote:
Islam has many things contrary to bible about Jesus

In Islam, Jesus (peace be upon him) is one of the mightiest Messengers of almighty God. But, he is not God nor the son of God. "It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is. " [Glorious Qur'an 19:35]


Futurist wrote:
We christians do not believe the angel Gabriel had sent messages to Mohammad, Mohammad had met the masqueraded angle.

This is your belief and I respect it. But, is it the truth?
Gabriel (peace be upon him) is the Angle who has the mission of delivering Allah's revelations to the Messengers, the last of them being Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).



Futurist wrote:
I read the English Quran, it is badly written, not chroniclely, everything not in good sequence.

First, it is quite obvious that in order to be fully understood, the Holy Qur'an should be read in the language it was revealed in, namely Arabic. All Praise be to God, the Glorious Qur'an we have today is exactly the same revealed 1400 ago.
Secondly, it depends on which English translation you use. The best one I would advise is: A translation of the Holy Qur'an
Thirdly: did you expect the Holy Qur'an to have a chronology like: "In the beginning...After...Then...At the end"? Did you expect that God's word would be similar to man-made books? No, the Holy Qur'an is a unique book, because it is God-made.


Futurist wrote:
This is the deceipt of the Devil

In Islam, we have many ways of fighting and defeating the devil, the simplest is to say: "A'uzu Billahi min-ash-Shaytan ar-Rajeem" (I take refuge in Allah against the accursed satan).
Can you describe to me how in Christianity you protect yourself from satan?



Futurist wrote:
if Jesus did not truly die on the cross, then there is no atonement of sin thru his precious blood to meet God's requirement.

Yes, we believe that there is no atonement through the blood of Jesus.
Christianity considers that human beings are sinners because Adam and Eve made an original sin.
On the other hand, Islam teaches that human beings are born pure and sinless. No one is responsible for or can take the responsibility of the sins of others.



Futurist wrote:
The New Testament was perfectly written and compiled long before mohammad, the theology of Christology was established firmly

Are you sure? So how can you explain the presence of some internal contradictions in the New Testament? For example:

Who was the father of Shealtiel?
1) Jechoniah (Matthew 1:12)
2) Neri' (Luke 3:27)

We can also find conflicting statements in the same Gospel. For example:

According to the Gospel of John, what did Jesus say about bearing his own witness?
1) "If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true" (John 5:3 1)
2) "Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true" (John 8:14)

Remember that God does not make mistakes.





Thank you Momma Angel for your posts,

Momma Angel wrote:
Perhaps you were not aware that every word of the Bible is God-breathed and God-inspired? The Word of God is divinely protected by God.

Then how you explain this:

(II Kings 8:26) Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.
(II Chronicles 22:2) Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.
22 is not equal to 42...

Are you sure that every word of the Bible is God-breathed and God-inspired?
0 Replies
 
muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 09:37 am
May almighty Allah reward you Raul-7 for your precious answers.


Raul-7 wrote:
God has stated in the Quran to something of the extent: they believe he was crucified, for that is false, rather that was someone who looked like him; for we have saved him and brought him up to the heavens.

You are referring to verses 157 and 158 of Surah Annisa':
"That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;
"
[Glorious Qur'an 4:157-158]


And Allah knows best.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 10:00 am
muslim1,

Good day to you. I have faith that every word in the Bible is God-breathed and God-inspired.

If one requires proof of God's existence, one has not faith.
0 Replies
 
muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 10:19 am
Momma Angel,

Momma Angel wrote:
muslim1,

Good day to you. I have faith that every word in the Bible is God-breathed and God-inspired.

If one requires proof of God's existence, one has not faith.

I truly respect your viewpoint. But, there are many people who require proof for everything. Are we gonna tell them: "you have no faith because you use your brain?". I think the use of BOTH the heart and the brain will lead us to the truth.
Btw, the method of giving proof for the existence of God was, is and will be successful in convincing a great deal of atheists and turn them into religion.

And you haven't answered my question:
muslim1 wrote:
Then how you explain this:

(II Kings 8:26) Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.
(II Chronicles 22:2) Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.
22 is not equal to 42...

Are you sure that every word of the Bible is God-breathed and God-inspired?

God is so Perfect that He will never make mistakes. At the same time, you can't convince me that 22 is equal to 42.


And Allah knows best.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 10:38 am
Muslim1,

Man is not superior to God. God is superior to man. Why should man feel they should ask God for proof of His existence? To me, that is the height of arrogance.

I need to look up those verses and read them and the stories they are in before I answer you.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 10:58 am
muslim1 wrote:
And you haven't answered my question:
muslim1 wrote:
Then how you explain this:

(II Kings 8:26) Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.
(II Chronicles 22:2) Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.
22 is not equal to 42...

Are you sure that every word of the Bible is God-breathed and God-inspired?

God is so Perfect that He will never make mistakes. At the same time, you can't convince me that 22 is equal to 42.
. . .
What translation are you using? Mine says 22 in both places.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 11:04 am
And so does my Bible, Neo. Says 22 in both places.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 11:08 am
NRSV has 22 and 42 with this note in Chronicles 2:22 "Ahaziah cannot be 'forty-two years old' since his father is said to have died at forty (21.20) 2 King 8.26 sets his age at twenty-two"

It notes the discrepancy and lets the error remain.
0 Replies
 
Futurist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 06:16 pm
A good apologetics has answers to all muslim1 questions.
You need to study more about christianity.
0 Replies
 
muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2005 08:54 am
Momma Angel,

Momma Angel wrote:
Man is not superior to God. God is superior to man.

That is absolutely true. "O ye men! It is ye that have need of Allah. but Allah is the One Free of all wants, worthy of all praise." [Glorious Qur'an 35:15]


Momma Angel wrote:
Why should man feel they should ask God for proof of His existence? To me, that is the height of arrogance.

You know very well that there are millions who do not believe in God. Do you think it is fair to let them go to Hell in the Hereafter because they are at the "height of arrogance"? Don't forget that, as a Christian, you should love your enemies...

In Islam, even if a person has the most stupid of beliefs, we have to do our best to answer his/her questions and present the truth to him/her as much as we can.
Did you know, Momma Angel, that before the coming of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), some people in Arabia used to worship idols made of food and eat them at the end of the day? Same thing the next day: worship the idol and eat it at night, and so on... This is indeed the height of ignorance! But Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), in his infinite wisdom, presented the truth to those people and answered their "arrogant" questions. All Praise be to God alone, many of them were guided to the truth and became very good Muslims.


neologist wrote:
What translation are you using? Mine says 22 in both places.

and
Momma Angel wrote:
And so does my Bible, Neo. Says 22 in both places.

The New Revised Standard Version. J_B's post gives details on this.

When, on this thread, I asked the same question to ??????? (who is an evangelist), he answered:
??????? wrote:
Ahaziah's correct age when he began his rule over Jerusalem is 22. However in 2 Kings 8:17 we find that it tells us that Ahaziah's father Joram ben Ahab was 32 years old when he became king and had died 8 years later at 40. Therefore, Ahaziah's age couldn't have been 42 years at the time his father died at age 42. The reason for the discrepency in ages is the result of a copyists error.

So a knowledgable person in Christianity recognises that there are copyists errors in the Bible. Are you sure then, Momma Angel, that "every word in the Bible is God-breathed and God-inspired."?


Futurist wrote:
A good apologetics has answers to all muslim1 questions.

I've had tens of discussions with Christian apologists and even scholars. Unfortunately, many of my questions remained unanswered...


Futurist wrote:
You need to study more about christianity.

As much as you need. Note that Christianity is your religion not mine, but you did not answer my questions to you (on page 49 of the thread).



And Allah knows best.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2005 12:57 pm
Thank you for answering my questions. Let me clear one thing up. I don't hate anyone. I made the statement it was the height of arrogance, because to me it is. Doesn't mean I hate anyone.

You then use the statement about my God and what He decrees?

The Bible is divinely protected by God. It is God breathed and God inspired.

I do nto believe in your prophets, Muslim1. I do not agree with your Quran. We just have differing views and beliefs.

Have a good day muslim1.
0 Replies
 
lightfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2005 06:03 pm
Quote...
We just have differing views and beliefs.

That says it all momma... good to see it's only "your" own persaonal view and belief, same goes with all the different religions that need some mythical thing to hang their...personal views and beliefs on, no matter what book~myth~heresay~ancestral memory... or other means of passing on what was guessed at happening, in bygone times.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2005 06:08 pm
Thanx lightfoot.
0 Replies
 
lightfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2005 06:18 pm
Not a problem Ma.
0 Replies
 
 

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