lightfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2005 06:23 pm
By the way Ma... I "believe" that there are aprox 30 thousand different "religiouse" denominations in the USA how many different Gods would that add up to?. If You say only one, that means there are aprox 30 thousand different ways to exsplain what he's saying?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2005 06:31 pm
No, lightfoot, I disagree with you. Not all religions worship the same God. They may call Him by the same name, but they definitely do not worship the same God.
0 Replies
 
lightfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2005 07:50 pm
Quote.....
No, lightfoot, I disagree with you. Not all religions worship the same God. They may call Him by the same name, but they definitely do not worship the same God.

Ma... Quite honestly, I can't see how you can make the above statement... you are virtually saying, He~She ( the God ) that these denominations worship, is not your God but "their" God~Gods ?? so.... by that denomination they worship a "other" God that has the same name as your God?.... plus you are definite about this?. Sooooo I'm to understand that there aprox 29 thousand denominations all worshiping "a" God who are "defiantly" not worshiping one particular God which happens to be your God. So I assume there are aprox 30 thousand different Gods being worshiped, or perhaps there is only one God... Yours, who, because you worship~acknowledge him a certain way, it makes their way~God null and void????
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2005 08:00 pm
I worship God. He has a son, Jesus Christ. If others deny this, to me, they are not worshipping the same God.
0 Replies
 
lightfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2005 10:22 pm
Quote...
I worship God. He has a son, Jesus Christ. If others deny this, to me, they are not worshipping the same God.

Ahhh.... now I see, when they actually prescribe to your particular "belief" their God will then become yours... is that right, or have I gone down the wrong track?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2005 10:42 pm
lightfoot,

If I say I worship the God that has a son named Jesus Christ and the god you or someone else worships does not have a son named Jesus Christ, how can they be the same God?
0 Replies
 
lightfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2005 11:19 pm
Hi Ma... now I get it.... there are two Gods... the one that you worship cos he has a son and the other God that doesn't have a son, that "they" worship?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2005 11:21 pm
lightfoot,

I do not believe there are two gods. I believe in one God.

They may hae someone they call god, but I do not believe that he is god.
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2005 11:25 pm
Hehehe...this is good stuff.
0 Replies
 
lightfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 12:06 am
Quote....
I do not believe there are two gods. I believe in one God.
They may have someone they call god, but I do not believe that he is god.

Hey!... Ma, I'm really confused?... you say you do not "believe" there are two God's, cause your God had a son, so that would automatically, knock the one without a son off his perch ????. bin trying to work out, how that computes, seems to me the magic word is "belief".
Now, if, when you use the magic word "belief" ( or perhaps you have to use the whole sentence.... quote- ("I do not believe there are two gods." I believe in one God"). and that knocks the God without a son off his perch... wouldn't the God without a son be able to return the favor and knock HIM off his perch, if the one's that worshipped him "believed" the opposite?, or is there some other way that you do what you say?
0 Replies
 
muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 04:42 am
Momma Angel,


Momma Angel wrote:
The Bible is divinely protected by God. It is God breathed and God inspired.

As I wrote before, I respect your belief. However, do you think you can convince a non-Christian that your statement is true without giving evidence or proof for it?
Only by saying that "It is God breathed and God inspired", you don't answer or refute my questions about the conflicting verses in the Bible.

Let me be clear: We -Muslims- are convinced that the original Bible is from God, no doubt about that: "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah. " [Holy Qur'an 5:46]

But where is the original Bible, as it was revealed by God almighty?
Today's Bible may contain the word of God, but it also contain words of Prophets, Apostles, historians, conflicting verses and scientific inaccuracies.



Momma Angel wrote:
I do nto believe in your prophets, Muslim1.

A part from the last and final Prophet, Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), can you please tell me who are the other Prophets of Islam (peace be upon them) you do not believe in?


Praise to Allah, the Lord and Cherisher of the Worlds.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 02:12 pm
muslim1 wrote:
Praise to Allah, the Lord and Cherisher of the Worlds.
So how many worlds are there?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 02:23 pm
I have a question. If Mohammed dictated the Koran, why do the earliest Koranic texts date to the early 9th century AD, i.e. 200 or more years after the death of Mohammed?

Alternatively if the Koran is the perfect and true word of God, highly venerated within Islam, why were all traces of early scripts lost destroyed or misplaced? I would not mind if Islam was consistent within its own belief system, but Muslims insist the Koran was given to Mohammed, yet it dates from after Mohammed's death.
0 Replies
 
lightfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 10:29 pm
Steve.. you'll have to wait till Ma gets back to me and explains how she make everything "true" to her, then we will know... "all" there is to know about God's and things.
0 Replies
 
muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2005 06:11 am
Steve,

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

So how many worlds are there?

There is the world of human beings, the world of angels, the world of jinns (devils), the world of the Hereafter (the afterlife)...
Praise to Allah, the Lord and Cherisher of the Worlds.



Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
I have a question. If Mohammed dictated the Koran, why do the earliest Koranic texts date to the early 9th century AD, i.e. 200 or more years after the death of Mohammed?

Alternatively if the Koran is the perfect and true word of God, highly venerated within Islam, why were all traces of early scripts lost destroyed or misplaced? I would not mind if Islam was consistent within its own belief system, but Muslims insist the Koran was given to Mohammed, yet it dates from after Mohammed's death.

You asked that question a number of times, in this thread and others. I'll remind you of the answers I gave to you earlier:

muslim1 wrote:
Whenever the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) received a revelation, he would first memorize it himself and later declare the revelation and instruct his Companions (who are the most righteous and honest people after the prophets) who would also memorize it. The Prophet would immediately ask the scribes to write down the revelation he had received, and he would reconfirm and recheck it himself. In this way, the complete Qur'an was written down under the personal supervision of the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

The complete Qur'an, along with the correct sequence of the verses, was present during the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). The verses however, were written on separate pieces, scrapes of leather, thin flat stones, leaflets, palm branches, shoulder blades, etc. After the demise of the prophet, Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him), the first caliph of Islam and the most righteous of the Companions, ordered that the Qur'an be copied from the various different materials on to a common material and place, which was in the shape of sheets. These were tied with strings so that nothing of the compilation was lost.

The third Caliph of Islam, Uthman (may Allah be pleased with him) borrowed the original manuscript of the Qur'an, which was authorized by the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), from Hafsa (may Allah be pleased with her), the Prophet's wife. Uthman (may Allah be pleased with him) ordered four Companions who were among the scribes who wrote the Qur'an when the Prophet dictated it, led by Zaid bin Thabit (may Allah be pleased with him) to rewrite the script in several perfect copies. These were sent by Uthman (may Allah be pleased with him) to the main centres of Muslims.

And above all that, Allah Himself has promised to guard the Qur'an:
"It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it" [Holy Qur'an 75:17]
"We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)." [Holy Qur'an 15:9]

If you want more details on this, here is a useful article:

Are There Scribal Errors In The Qur'an?

muslim1 wrote:
1) We dot not worship those pieces of scrapes of leather, thin flat stones, leaflets, palm branches, shoulder blades. What is important is their content.
2) All their content was copied into one material. So nothing was lost.



And Allah knows best.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2005 09:15 am
muslim1 wrote:
Steve,

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

So how many worlds are there?

There is the world of human beings, the world of angels, the world of jinns (devils), the world of the Hereafter (the afterlife)...
Praise to Allah, the Lord and Cherisher of the Worlds.



Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
I have a question. If Mohammed dictated the Koran, why do the earliest Koranic texts date to the early 9th century AD, i.e. 200 or more years after the death of Mohammed?

Alternatively if the Koran is the perfect and true word of God, highly venerated within Islam, why were all traces of early scripts lost destroyed or misplaced? I would not mind if Islam was consistent within its own belief system, but Muslims insist the Koran was given to Mohammed, yet it dates from after Mohammed's death.

You asked that question a number of times, in this thread and others. I'll remind you of the answers I gave to you earlier:

muslim1 wrote:
Whenever the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) received a revelation, he would first memorize it himself and later declare the revelation and instruct his Companions (who are the most righteous and honest people after the prophets) who would also memorize it. The Prophet would immediately ask the scribes to write down the revelation he had received, and he would reconfirm and recheck it himself. In this way, the complete Qur'an was written down under the personal supervision of the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

The complete Qur'an, along with the correct sequence of the verses, was present during the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). The verses however, were written on separate pieces, scrapes of leather, thin flat stones, leaflets, palm branches, shoulder blades, etc. After the demise of the prophet, Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him), the first caliph of Islam and the most righteous of the Companions, ordered that the Qur'an be copied from the various different materials on to a common material and place, which was in the shape of sheets. These were tied with strings so that nothing of the compilation was lost.

The third Caliph of Islam, Uthman (may Allah be pleased with him) borrowed the original manuscript of the Qur'an, which was authorized by the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), from Hafsa (may Allah be pleased with her), the Prophet's wife. Uthman (may Allah be pleased with him) ordered four Companions who were among the scribes who wrote the Qur'an when the Prophet dictated it, led by Zaid bin Thabit (may Allah be pleased with him) to rewrite the script in several perfect copies. These were sent by Uthman (may Allah be pleased with him) to the main centres of Muslims.

And above all that, Allah Himself has promised to guard the Qur'an:
"It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it" [Holy Qur'an 75:17]
"We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)." [Holy Qur'an 15:9]

If you want more details on this, here is a useful article:

Are There Scribal Errors In The Qur'an?

muslim1 wrote:
1) We dot not worship those pieces of scrapes of leather, thin flat stones, leaflets, palm branches, shoulder blades. What is important is their content.
2) All their content was copied into one material. So nothing was lost.



And Allah knows best.


ok Muslim1 you answered my questions, thank you. You know I'm not trying to challenge your faith....just asking some hard questions. You probably realise I do not take religion as seriously as you so...

Merry Christmas! Or Eid or just Seasons Greetings
0 Replies
 
muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 06:23 am
Questions on Islam?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 08:52 am
muslim1 wrote:
Whenever the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) received a revelation, he would first memorize it himself and later declare the revelation and instruct his Companions (who are the most righteous and honest people after the prophets) who would also memorize it. The Prophet would immediately ask the scribes to write down the revelation he had received, and he would reconfirm and recheck it himself. In this way, the complete Qur'an was written down under the personal supervision of the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

The complete Qur'an, along with the correct sequence of the verses, was present during the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). The verses however, were written on separate pieces, scrapes of leather, thin flat stones, leaflets, palm branches, shoulder blades, etc. After the demise of the prophet, Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him), the first caliph of Islam and the most righteous of the Companions, ordered that the Qur'an be copied from the various different materials on to a common material and place, which was in the shape of sheets. These were tied with strings so that nothing of the compilation was lost.

The third Caliph of Islam, Uthman (may Allah be pleased with him) borrowed the original manuscript of the Qur'an, which was authorized by the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), from Hafsa (may Allah be pleased with her), the Prophet's wife. Uthman (may Allah be pleased with him) ordered four Companions who were among the scribes who wrote the Qur'an when the Prophet dictated it, led by Zaid bin Thabit (may Allah be pleased with him) to rewrite the script in several perfect copies. These were sent by Uthman (may Allah be pleased with him) to the main centres of Muslims.

And above all that, Allah Himself has promised to guard the Qur'an:
"It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it" [Holy Qur'an 75:17]
"We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)." [Holy Qur'an 15:9]


Thank you for your answer Muslim1. It may be that I am particularly dense and ignorant about Islam, but I still do not understand. Your answer raises more questions than it satisfies. If Uthman borrowed the original Koran from Hafsa as you say, did he give it back? And if not, why not? What happened to the original? And where is it now? Surely in the whole of Islam, the original Koran as handled by the Prophet himself MUST be the most important holy relic. Yet Uthman borrowed it and it disappears. One might have thought the Caliph would take more care over the original manuscript which was the key founding document of the very religion over which he presided. And its not good enough to say well its the content of the Koran which is important, and now we have copies, the original can be discarded. Apart from being surprizingly disrespectful how can anyone say for sure that it would never be necessary to refer to the ORIGINAL?

Put yourself in the position of Uthman. You borrow the holiest book in Islam from the Prophet's wife (no less). You yourself are the Caliph. Your religion and your position depend on that book. Yet you manage to lose it. Sorry Muslim1 it doesnt stack up. If the Koran dated from the time of Mohammed, there would be copies in existance now which could be dated to that time, and there aren't any.
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 09:33 am
muslim1, isn't equivocating djinns with devils an oversimplification? Aren't there, in your religion, djinns that fear, respect and in some way work for Allah?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 11:17 am
Oh my God, it gets worse. They believe in evil spirits that gets right up my nose Smile
0 Replies
 
 

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