Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Nov, 2005 02:27 pm
ok bye ???????

now if Muslim1 will follow,

I will feel quite satisfied....Smile
0 Replies
 
muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2005 02:47 pm
??????? wrote:
I bow out of this thread, my message has gotten nowhere and also is taken as insult. I have far more important duties to attend to, and there is too much time to be wasting on those who consider the Gospel foolishness. Jesus said, that if they will not hear His words, they will not hear those who teach it, furthermore He stated that many will be "offended" because of His word. My job is to evangelize, and to spread the Gospel to those who have the heart to listen without taking offense at it. My work is done here. These are not my words, but the words spoken from the breath of God through His servants, if any man is offended, take it up with God.

Quote:
Cor 4:3,4 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


God Bless!


I respect your decision.

All Praise be to Allah (God) alone.

May Allah (God), the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful, guide you toward the truth. Amen.

May the peace and blessings of almighty Allah (God) be upon his last and final Messenger Muhammad.

Glory to thy Lord, the Lord of Honor and Power! (He is free) from what they ascribe (to Him)!
And Peace on the apostles!
And Praise to Allah, the Lord and Cherisher of the Worlds.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2005 02:49 pm
Right behind you ???????.
0 Replies
 
muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2005 02:58 pm
Thank you Momma Angel for your response,

Momma Angel wrote:
I am sorry, but it was rape.

It certainly was not. Care re-read the definition of the word "Rape" I mentioned in my previous post.
It is your point of view and I understand that. But If you do not provide evidence for that claim, it's hard for me to be convinced.



Momma Angel wrote:
We do not worship the same God. Your God has no son named Jesus Christ who was crucified on the cross for the forgiveness of sins.

I fully respect your belief. However, when Jesus Christ died on the cross, was he in God state or in human state?
Note that:
1) God does not die.
2) A human cannot carry all the the sins of the world.



Momma Angel wrote:
More than one god? Oh yes, there are many Gods. They are false gods, but people think they are gods nonetheless.

But there is One and a Unique God who Has the ability, domination and power to do everything, correct?



Momma Angel wrote:
And science can say anything it wants to. Science is something of man, not of God.

It depends on which science you mean. For example: science tells us that the earth rotates in an elliptic (oval)
orbit around the sun. This is a true fact because God almighty made it like this. Your statement "Science is something of man" is then devoid of rigor. I think it is better to say "scientific theories are of man". But true scientific facts are there because God wills so.
We live in the era of technology and science. In all honesty, the Holy Qur'an is the only religious book which is in full compatibility with established and true scientific facts. This made some renounced scientists revert to Islam.



Momma Angel wrote:
I don't know how old women were when they married in Biblical times, I admit. But, I can pretty much guarantee they weren't six or 9 years old.

In The New Encyclopaedia Britannica, 15th Edition (1987), Volume 15, page 646, it is mentioned that : ". . . women marry soon after puberty".
Also, in is known that ""Getting your period" marks a rite of passage for young girls entering womanhood".
To sum up, puberty is the sign from which women can have physical and psychological ability to marry and have children.
And in the case of girls, puberty can start not only from 9, but also from 8 or even 7 years old.



Momma Angel wrote:
When was the Qu'ran written BTW? Who wrote it? Can you give me your take on it?

Thank you again for asking about my religion.
The Holy Qur'an is a book containing chapters which contain verses. Every verse was revealed by God almighty to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) in a period of around 23 years.
The Holy Qur'an is the last and final revelation from God almighty. It is a book of prophecy, glad tidings, warning and guidance to all human being.
As for the collection of the Qur'an Manuscript, please refer to my discussions with ???????.


And allah knows best.
0 Replies
 
muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2005 03:01 pm
Thank you Steve for your remarks,


Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
I would just like people to acknowledge that there are some things that we do not know, and will never know.

I acknowledge that, you are absolutely right. In fact God almighty says: "Of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)"[Glorious Qur'an 17:85] and
"but over all endued with knowledge is one, the All-Knowing."[Glorious Qur'an 12:76]



Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
And when someone tells me that the Koran is the perfect and final word of God...

The Noble Qur'an contains all what we need as human beings, all what is useful for us. Moreover, as long as a person is logical, he/she will not find a single error or contradiction in this great book.



Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
There is only one way forward, and that is using our powers of observation; and thinking rationally and critically about what we observe. Thats why God gave us a brain.

Indeed. Our Creator gave us a brain to use it in our quest for the truth. Phrases like "Will ye not understand?", "Will ye then consider not?", "Will ye not then see?" are mentioned in several verses of the Glorious Qur'an.


And Allah knows best.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Nov, 2005 03:17 pm
ok lets go back one step

Who was Mohammed? No evidence at all. the Koran makes more reference to Moses and Noah.

Who wrote the Koran? Not Mohammed, he was according to Muslim tradition illiterate. But surrounded by scribes apparantly, who wrote down all he said and did. Yet NOTHING survives.

Islamic tradition tells us that Mohammed changed the direction of prayer from Jerusalem to Mecca. Yet mosques built hundreds of years after the death of Mohammed have prayer niches directed north to Jerusalem not Mecca.

If the Koran is the final and perfect word of God how is it that fragments of the earliest Koranic scripts found in the loft space of the Great Mosque at Sana'a differ from the current authorised version? And have segments of text erased and over written?

Textual analysis shows the language used in the Koran owes its origins to the Talmud.

"Mohammed's God endorsed a policy of conquest, instructing his believers to fight against unbelievers wherever they may be found. In short Mohammed had to conquer, his followers liked to conquer, and his deity told him to conquer".

That is scholarship. That is applying brain power to observable evidence.
0 Replies
 
muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 10:35 am
Thank you Steve for your questions,

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Who was Mohammed? No evidence at all. the Koran makes more reference to Moses and Noah.

Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is the last and final Messenger of God almighty. By name, he is mentioned 4 times in the Holy Qur'an. But the Noble Qur'an makes reference to him in a great deal of verses. Indeed, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus (peace be upon them all) are highly mentioned in the Glorious Qur'an. But no person is so exalted and praised like Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).


Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Who wrote the Koran? Not Mohammed, he was according to Muslim tradition illiterate. But surrounded by scribes apparantly, who wrote down all he said and did.

Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) received the revelation from almighty God. He (peace and blessings be upon him) was indeed unlettered, and this proves that the Holy Qur'an is from God since no unlettered (or even lettered) person can produce such extraordinary and superior book.



Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Islamic tradition tells us that Mohammed changed the direction of prayer from Jerusalem to Mecca. Yet mosques built hundreds of years after the death of Mohammed have prayer niches directed north to Jerusalem not Mecca.

God almighty instructed His Prophet to change the direction of prayer toward Mecca : "Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque: Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction."[Glorious Qur'an 2:144]

Can you give me the name (or location) of a mosque that is not directed to Mecca?


Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Yet NOTHING survives.

and
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
If the Koran is the final and perfect word of God how is it that fragments of the earliest Koranic scripts found in the loft space of the Great Mosque at Sana'a differ from the current authorised version? And have segments of text erased and over written?

Care refer to our discussions, on this same thread, on the integrity of the Quranic Manuscript.



Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Textual analysis shows the language used in the Koran owes its origins to the Talmud.

The Quranic language is a unique one, it owes its origins not to the talmud (which I believe is man made) but to your (and my) Creator, God (Allah).



Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
"Mohammed's God endorsed a policy of conquest, instructing his believers to fight against unbelievers wherever they may be found. In short Mohammed had to conquer, his followers liked to conquer, and his deity told him to conquer"

I found (exactly) this same paragraph on many websites. From which did you take it?
Anyway, an answer to whether Islam was spread by sword or not can be found on page 23 of this thread.



Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
That is scholarship. That is applying brain power to observable evidence.

I am afraid it is not evidence what you provided...


And Allah knows best.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 12:08 pm
ok thanks for your responses Muslim1.

I want to make one thing clear, and this could be directed to you or to a Jew or Christian. I AM NOT TRYING TO DESTROY YOUR FAITH.

You are entitled to your beliefs about (what I consider to be the unknowable) as anyone else.

All I am trying to do is look dispassionately at the history of your religion, and perhaps compare and contrast it with others, notably Christianity and Judaism. But, it seems to me, very few Muslims are prepared to enter into objective debate.

I made quite a few points in my last post, lets just on a couple for a moment.

The origin of the Koran. You say it is the word of God. I say it is a compilation of many holy texts that were brought together over several centuries. You say it is perfect and final. I say there have been several changes. But regardless of whether the text has changed, consider this.

According to Muslim tradition, Mohammed was illiterate or as you said without letters. Eitherway its the same thing. You say this proves his utterances came from God, as he did not write them down himself. In fact he is supposed to have been surrounded by scribes who wrote down all that he said. They wrote it on pieces of papyrus, on pottery, on stones and on parchment, in fact just about anything that came to hand. And there was a lot. Now what happened to all these artefacts? Why does nothing survive? Are we to believe that the Original Words of God, as given to Mohammed and as first written down, were just thrown away?

Direction of prayer. I cannot give you the location of a mosque today that has the qibla pointing north to Jerusalem. Thats because NOW they all point toward Mecca. All I can say is that there is archaeological evidence from mosques built in the 8th century in Arabia that the original prayer niche pointed north, and not towards Mecca. This is well known in academic circles both in the west and in the Muslim world, though maybe not to ordinary Muslims.
0 Replies
 
northpole
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2005 12:33 pm
desbeliver
im filled up with islam (and all other religion) i say if you belive its ok. but keep it for your self.
religion i think are for people who cant fill out there life,and who are afraid of the death. wake up!! there is nothing for you after the death, we will all rotten and be a part of the earth, and thats good i think. so forget all about paradise and all that crap, live your life and don't waste it. you are not put to earth so you can spend all your time to think about what happens when you are death????????thats to stupid don't you think :-)).
We have people like muslims and budist there are using all there life to pray to someone they never have seen????they only have read about them.wtf.are they thinking about?? the country they live in is falling apart, and still all they do is to pray???that what i call stupid. i don't want to talk about killing in the name of god! because then i get nasty :-))
i laugh when i see and muslim using allahs name and at same time have a gun to someones head??? ooh prays allah he most be something LOOL.
next day i see victim of sunami and eartquake is that allah to hmm.
what have the muslims done wrong to deserve that HHMMMM
where i live we don't have nature disasters like that, but theres not many believers here to. hmm maby you have a god there...but then you do something wrong i think... ´with all that punishment you get from him.... Twisted Evil :wink:
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2005 01:00 pm
northpole,

I am puzzled. If you don't want to hear about God, then why are you in the Spirituality & Relgion forum? Don't get me wrong, you have every right to be here. I am just very curious at those that say they want nothing to do with God but then involve themselves.
0 Replies
 
muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 10:41 am
Hello northpole and welcome to the forum,

northpole wrote:
im filled up with islam (and all other religion) i say if you belive its ok. but keep it for your self.

As a muslim, I believe that Islam is the way of life that God Has chosen for His creatures. As Muslims, we do not impose our religion on people, we try our best to present what we believe is the truth. You are free to accept it or not: "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error" [Glorious Qur'an 2:256] .



northpole wrote:
religion i think are for people who cant fill out there life,and who are afraid of the death.

With all my due respect, I disagree. Do you know that when Islam was truly implemented, Muslims were very successful people in there lives? Do you know the amount of inventions and discoveries that were made up by Muslims?
As for the death: on the contrary, people who do not believe in God should be afraid of death. We -religious people- are not afraid of since we are willing to meet our Creator.



northpole wrote:
wake up!! there is nothing for you after the death, we will all rotten and be a part of the earth, and thats good i think.

If a man kills a mother's kid, and then escapes from justice until he dies, do you think it is fair that the man "will rotten and be a part of the earth", without being punished for his abhorrent crime? What about the destroyed heart of the mother? Do you know how many crimes remained unpunished in this world?
God (Allah in Arabic) says: "Did ye then think that We had created you in jest, and that ye would not be brought back to Us (for account)?" [Glorious Qur'an 23:115]
There is no doubt that there will be a Great Day, The Last Day, The Day of Judgement when complete, perfect and final justice will be established.



northpole wrote:
so forget all about paradise and all that crap, live your life and don't waste it. you are not put to earth so you can spend all your time to think about what happens when you are death????????thats to stupid don't you think

Imagine a person who only "lives his life and doesn't waste it" (to use your words). How many years will this person enjoy it? 60 years? 80 years? 100 years? It's a very short period if you compare it with what Allah (God) offers you if you obey Him: an eternal, ever-lasting joy and happiness in the Paradise.
Obeying God does not mean we will not have anything in this world : "Say: Who hath forbidden the beautiful (gifts) of Allah, which He hath produced for His servants, and the things, clean and pure, (which He hath provided) for sustenance?" [Glorious Qur'an 7:32]



northpole wrote:
We have people like muslims and budist there are using all there life to pray to someone they never have seen????they only have read about them.wtf.are they thinking about?? the country they live in is falling apart, and still all they do is to pray???that what i call stupid.

Prayer is a very important element in our religion, it's the most important pillar of Islam, because it keeps us close to our Creator and remembers us that we have to obey Him. Yet, Prayer is not the only thing in Islam. In a few words, Islam is: Doing and enjoining what is Good, abstaining from and forbidding what is Wrong and believing in God almighty, His Angels, His Prophets, His Books, The Last Day and in His Decree (Destiny).



northpole wrote:
where i live we don't have nature disasters like that, but theres not many believers here to. hmm maby you have a god there...but then you do something wrong i think... ´with all that punishment you get from him....

There is One and an Only God ruling the heavens and the earth. Wherever you are, God sees you and knows what you do: "He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do." [Glorious Qur'an 57:4]
Moreover, doing something wrong does not mean automatic punishment from our Lord. In fact, God almighty Gives us the opportunity to have a sincere and true repentance to Him, because He is the most Gracious, the most Merciful.


I welcome any questions or remarks about Islam.


And Allah knows best.
0 Replies
 
Jason Proudmoore
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 02:24 pm
Human need to believe in something
The main arguments that give philosophers and theologies the evidence that there is no God is mainly because of the many, many, many, many contradictions that support such claims. For instance, we can say that an object can be red all over, but that same object can't be red and black all over. This would contradict the logic and sense of what the object actually is. This gives birth to the Argument from Evil that reveals an evil God, totally opposed to what a lot of people think: for example, an innocent little girl (about six years old) is trapped in a room engulfed in fire. The little girl desperately gets on her knees, closes her eyes and begins to ask God to save her. The girl dies consumed by the fire. Why didn't God save her? If God could not hear her, he's not omnipresent. If God could hear her but didn't want to save her, He's not all good. If God could hear her, wanted to help her but couldn't, He's not all powerful. This means that if God exists He's all three, which means He doesn't exist.

Another example is the Book of Job (if you have read it) that reveals a sadistic, selfish God who makes a wager with the devil trying to prove Job's faithfulness by inflicting leprosy, killing all his children, and making him a vagabond, and rewards him later by giving him more than he ever had. If this is the characteristic behavior of a good God, then there is a contradiction of what the Bible tries to depict Him as the all-good, moral God. God's actions give a bad moral example to humanity, which tells us that we must do "good" not because we have to, but because of what he can give us in return; that we must do the things that please him, not because they're the right things to do, but because we desperately want the salvation of our souls. And why do we have to believe in Him anyway? Why can't we just do the right things without believing in him? Why is it very important to Him? Why is it that if we don't believe in Him, we most likely end up in Hell for all eternity? Other arguments among others that prove God's nonexistence are the Allegory of the Cave, The Invisible Gardener, and Socrate's The Apology.
0 Replies
 
muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Dec, 2005 03:15 pm
Hello Jason and welcome to the forum,

Jason Proudmoore wrote:
The main arguments that give philosophers and theologies the evidence that there is no God is mainly because of the many, many, many, many contradictions that support such claims. For instance, we can say that an object can be red all over, but that same object can't be red and black all over. This would contradict the logic and sense of what the object actually is. This gives birth to the Argument from Evil that reveals an evil God, totally opposed to what a lot of people think: for example, an innocent little girl (about six years old) is trapped in a room engulfed in fire. The little girl desperately gets on her knees, closes her eyes and begins to ask God to save her. The girl dies consumed by the fire. Why didn't God save her? If God could not hear her, he's not omnipresent. If God could hear her but didn't want to save her, He's not all good. If God could hear her, wanted to help her but couldn't, He's not all powerful. This means that if God exists He's all three, which means He doesn't exist.

Another example is the Book of Job (if you have read it) that reveals a sadistic, selfish God who makes a wager with the devil trying to prove Job's faithfulness by inflicting leprosy, killing all his children, and making him a vagabond, and rewards him later by giving him more than he ever had. If this is the characteristic behavior of a good God, then there is a contradiction of what the Bible tries to depict Him as the all-good, moral God. God's actions give a bad moral example to humanity, which tells us that we must do "good" not because we have to, but because of what he can give us in return; that we must do the things that please him, not because they're the right things to do, but because we desperately want the salvation of our souls. And why do we have to believe in Him anyway? Why can't we just do the right things without believing in him? Why is it very important to Him? Why is it that if we don't believe in Him, we most likely end up in Hell for all eternity? Other arguments among others that prove God's nonexistence are the Allegory of the Cave, The Invisible Gardener, and Socrate's The Apology.


With all my due respect, I disagree. There is irrefutable evidence that God exists. Care read carefully the following post, on an other thread by brother QKid, which proves the existence of God:
QKid wrote:
Look guys. There is proof of the existence of God (Creator). And it is not so complicated that no one can understand. Here it is.
When we look around us at everything we can sense one factor is shared by these things, and that is that they are all limited. By limited we mean that they have restrictions, a starting point and an ending point, and they all have definable attributes, i.e. they are finite. Man is born and he dies. There is no one alive who will not die. During his life span, he will grow to a certain shape, height and volume. The universe is defined as all the celestial bodies and planets. All these objects have a certain mass, shape, volume and so on. The life span of a star may be very long, but a point in time will come when it will cease to exist.
The universe is large, but is still a 'finite' space. NO scientist could ever prove using hard facts that the universe has no bounds. In fact when they say the universe arose from a Big Bang and is expanding they inherently admit it is finite in size, otherwise it could not expand! There is nothing in reality which is unlimited. No matter how hard we try, man is unable to find anything unlimited around him. All he can perceive is the finite and limited.
A further attribute of everything around us is that they are all needy and dependent in order to continue existing. They are not self sustaining or independent. Man has needs. He has to satisfy in order to survive. He has organic needs. Man must eat and drink if he is to survive. If he does not he will die. We see need and dependency in plants and animals. They depend On other parts Of the food chain for their existence. The water cycle is dependent On the sun, which is dependent on the laws of the galaxies and of burning mass, and SO on... Nothing man can perceive is self-subsistent. So things exist, but do not have the power of existence. They cannot control when they die or when other bodies die. There is one fact that emerges from all this. If something is limited and finite, and does not have the power to be self-subsistent then it must have been created.
Applying this to everything we see will bring us to a conclusion. If everything in the universe is created because it has not the power of being in existence on its own, and is finite and limited, then there must be a Creator. This Creator by contrast has to be unlimited and not needy and dependent on anything to bring It into, or sustain It's existence.
The universe; the sum of finite and dependent objects is finite and dependent -but dependent on what? Dependent on something to start and sustain life, something to plan and develop life. The only rational and intellectual solution to the question Of creation is that there is a Creator which has accounted for all that we see and perceive. Rational tells us that nothing can be created without a creator. Ultimately there must be a Creator who is unlimited in every aspect.

Conclusion:
Since everything in the universe is limited, it must mean that it didnt exist at one point. Thus it had to be created. God did it.

I did not write this. But I have taken a class which explained it very similarly. If u have any questions, ofcourse reply.


There are many other arguments for the existence of God. But first, I'd like to read your comments on brother QKid's post.

And Allah knows best.
0 Replies
 
mansio
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 01:33 am
I don't deny the existence of God but it seems that he doesn't correspond to the idea we have of him.
For example the Christian God states in several instances in the Gospels that he answers any prayers. We see every day and every minute that it doesn't happen, and we see that Allah never gives victory to Muslims.
So if he doesn't save the girl from the fire and doesn't give victory to Muslims, it means that God functions in another way as according to what is bad or good to man.

It isn't sufficient to state that God exists but every believer must also prove that his idea of God is the true one.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 10:01 am
There are several things wrong with Qkids thinking.

Firstly at a sub atomic level, particles are created "out of nothing". Just because at a larger scale we are not used to the idea of something out of nothing, it does not negate theprinciple.

Secondly if the universe is finite, is God part of it or not? If God is part of the universe, then who created God witht the Universe?

It may be that its convenient to concentrate all that we do not and perhaps cannot know in the concept of God. But to therefore go on to describe what he is like, what he approves of and does not and what we must do to keep on ther ight side of him is just silly. How can you possibly know?

How is your concept of what God is like any better than anyone else's?

Just stating that the universe is finite proves the existence of God is facile.
0 Replies
 
muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Dec, 2005 02:10 pm
Thank you mansio for your comments,


mansio wrote:
and we see that Allah never gives victory to Muslims.

Sure? God (Allah in Arabic) indeed gave, gives and will give victory to Muslims. But there are conditions for this: "O ye who believe! If ye will aid (the cause of) Allah, He will aid you, and plant your feet firmly"[Glorious Qur'an 47:4]. It means that we have to obey and implement the laws of our Lord so that He gives us victory. Moreover, we have to reform ourselves and abstain from sins so that we succeed: "Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change it themselves"[Glorious Qur'an 13:11]


mansio wrote:
So if he doesn't save the girl from the fire and doesn't give victory to Muslims, it means that God functions in another way as according to what is bad or good to man.

First, the example of the girl is not a specific one (what's her name, when and where was she burned, was she Muslim or not...).
Secondly, when God does something, even if it appears to us to be bad, it surely is good because God decrees nothing but good.
Here is an example I gave to Steve in a previous discussion: imagine a believing mother who looses her beloved child. It's a most inimaginably difficult event for her. We, as humans, may think it's a bad thing.
Yet, if the mother is patient, enduring without protest or complaint, if she praises her Lord (Allah) who gave her that child, if she accepts the Decree of her Creator: she will be awarded the eternal, ever-lasting Paradise where she can meet her child again. So definitely it was a good thing for her.


mansio wrote:
It isn't sufficient to state that God exists but every believer must also prove that his idea of God is the true one.

I agree with you. Nice point.




Thank you Steve for your comments,


Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Firstly at a sub atomic level, particles are created "out of nothing".

First, you agree that particles are "created" and I appreciate that.
Secondly, how were particles created? by chance? or rather there is a mechanism which brought them into existence?
In Islam, we believe that Allah is the only one who can create things out of nothing.


Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
because at a larger scale we are not used to the idea of something out of nothing, it does not negate theprinciple

But the larger scale is also important. It helps us understand how Powerful is God who can bring atoms together in a perfect manner to form large and complex things.


Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Secondly if the universe is finite, is God part of it or not? If God is part of the universe, then who created God witht the Universe?

God is unlimited in every aspect, God is beyond our imagination.
Who created God? no one. Because God is "The First" (Al-Awwal): the First to exist, the First Creator... "He begetteth not, nor is He begotten"[Glorious Qur'an 112:3]. "He is the First and the Last"[Glorious Qur'an 57:3].


Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
It may be that its convenient to concentrate all that we do not and perhaps cannot know in the concept of God. But to therefore go on to describe what he is like, what he approves of and does not and what we must do to keep on ther ight side of him is just silly. How can you possibly know?

I agree with you that we are unable to know everything about Allah: "Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth."[Glorious Qur'an 2:255].
But Allah sent Messengers and revealed books to clarify and explain "the concept of God" to humanity. All Praise be to Allah, He does not neglect us (even if He is The Self-Sufficient and does not need anything) because He is the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. "Does man think that he will be left uncontrolled, (without purpose)? "[Glorious Qur'an 75:36]



Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Just stating that the universe is finite proves the existence of God is facile.

Everything in the universe is limited and dependent (on other things). The universe itself is finite and dependent. So, the universe must have been created. The Big Bang and the distribution of matter in the universe must have been planned. Allah is the Creator and the Planner...


Questions on Islam are most welcome.


And Allah knows best.
0 Replies
 
Futurist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2005 11:54 pm
do you think Islam is an evil religion?
0 Replies
 
muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2005 11:05 am
Thank you Futurist for your question;


Futurist wrote:
do you think Islam is an evil religion?


The Holy Qur'an (which is the book revealed by God to His last and final Messenger Muhammad) instructs the Muslims to abstain from evil in no less than 267 different places.
Islam being mainly based on the Holy Qur'an, cannot be an evil religion. On the contrary, Islam is the religion of Good.
" Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong" [Glorious Qur'an 3:110]

So the answer to your question is: no, Islam is not an evil religion.

And Allah knows best.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2005 11:13 am
I was impressed with Qkid's proof of God's existence. Qkid sees God in the simplest of terms and I believe that is one of the problems of religions today. We look for complicated explanations and answers.

I worked with someone once that had converted from Christianity to Buddhism. I asked him why. He told me, "Because the answers in Christianity were just too easy." Well, to say the least, I was quite surprised. Shocked

Why do we look for complication? Why look for proof of God at all? It surrounds us all. But, this is the simple answer. Those that would ask God for a sign that He exists IMO wouldn't see it anyway. If you cannot see the simplest of things, how can you see the complicated?
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Dec, 2005 10:49 am
I have a question regarding Islam. True Islam.

Does Islam believe in the possibility of reincarnation or resurrection?
0 Replies
 
 

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