ISLAM Q&A

from

http://www.secularislam.org/humanrights/silent.htm

quote:

Humanity must rise up and defend itself against the barbarity of Islam.

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Great link Steve, thanks.

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Terry,

Terry wrote:

Why does it not occur to you that the problem here is not how Muslim women dress, but how Muslim men behave?

Why do you suppose that Muslim men are so lacking in self-control that the sight of an exposed leg would inflame them

Certainly, the man has a share of responsibility in whether a rape, teasing or molestation happens or not. But, the woman who exposes her body is the major factor.

Terry wrote:

while most Western men are able to behave appropriately even when confronted with beaches full of bikini-clad young ladies?

Are you sure? The highest rape rates are in the west. Here is an example from the U.S:
American Rape Statistics
In the "Islamic" countries, you'll find much lower rates. When Islam was rightly implemented (in the time of the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and the guided leaders of Islam), adultery rate was near zero per cent.

Terry wrote:

Just out of curiousity, will virile male companions be provided for devout Muslim women in Paradise, whose husbands are busy flirting with virgins?

A verse from the Holy Qur'an (which is the word of God almighty) is sufficient to answer your query: Almighty God (Allah in Arabic) says:
"there will be there all that the souls could desire, all that their ayes could delight in: and ye shall abide therein" [Holy Qur'an 43:71]
It means that a woman (or a man) in the Paradise will have all what she wants.

Terry wrote:

It was degradation to treat women as household slaves

Household slaves? No, that's not the role of a Muslim woman. In Islam, the woman in her house is the main builder of the society. When she covers her husband with care, compassion and love, she helps him to be so successful in his job and responsibility; It is well known that "Behind every successful man, there is a woman".
By raising her children correctly, the mother carefully constructs future generations.

Terry wrote:

who could be abused with impunity by their fathers/husbands

I know about a religion which calls for husbands to treat their wives in the kindest of ways, that is ISLAM. God (Allah in Arabic) says: "live with them (wives) on a footing of kindness and equity" [Holy Qur'an 4:19]
I know about a religion which considers the best of men those who love and care about their wives, and that is ISLAM. "The best of you are the kindest to their wives and I am your best to mine", is a teaching by prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).

flushd,

Thank you for your valuable remarks and important question.

flushd wrote:

In a way I understand why Muslims would find Western women's dress to be outrageous and degrading - sometimes it is. Often it is.

That is absolutely true.

flushd wrote:

However, I would much prefer to have the choices that West presents (as a woman). If I choose to wear a burka here (is that the correct name for that garment?), I can do so. If I choose to wear a bra and a skirt, I can do that as well.

I don't know in which country you live. But in France - a main western society- head scarves (not even burkas) are forbidden in schools. There are call in other western countries to follow the (bad) footsteps of Jacques Chirac.
PS: What an honor for a french Muslim girl to scare a 'great' country only with a piece of clothing on her head!

flushd wrote:

What are the teaching in regards to raising children? Is there a strict code on 'how to raise a good child'?

From the little knowledge that I have:
1) The suckling of the baby should be natural (from the breast of the mother) and should last two years. It helps to build the child physically as well as psychologically.
2) The education of the child should be based on ethics and religion (Islam).
3) The parents should help their child acquire knowledge (through studying) which will be beneficial for him/her in this life and in the Hereafter.
4) Islam says your child must be allowed to play until 7 (years of age), be taught things for life from 7 - 14 and be your friend from 14 - 21.

flushd wrote:

I have a hard time understanding the Koran by myself; it is like wading through a different language.

I agree with you sister, the translations of the Holy Qur'an do not reflect 100% the pure and extraordinary Arabic text. Nevertheless, this translation Translation of the Qur'an, along with authentic Ahadiths (sayings of prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him)), books and websites reflecting true Islamic teachings, will be of valuable help to you.

And Allah knows best.

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Certainly there are calls for other western countries to follow the lead of France in banning the hajib for girls in state schools, something that I support.

In Belgium a woman has recently been fined for wearing a burka in public (but of course she will not pay and does not recognise the authority). Her husband is wanted in Spain in connection with the Madrid train bombings.

In Britain we have had suicide bombings by people claiming to be Muslims, but the Muslim Council of Britain denounce suicide bombing as un Islamic.

I am not a racist, and I defend the right of anyone to follow whatever religion they wish in PRIVATE and in conformity with the secular law. But Britain has never been and will never be an Islamic state and we will no longer tolerate those who abuse our tolerance.

Your contempt Muslim1 for Western democracy is palpable.

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Muslim1, thank you for responding to my questions. Smile

I live in Canada. In Manitoba, to be precise. I know of many Muslim women who live and work in the clothing they prefer (sometimes headscarves, also I have seen women in burkas). As far as I know, they are free to dress as they wish so long as it does not interfere with the work they are doing. Some private schools and work environments, by their vary nature, require different dress.

I love living in Canada, very much. There is a high tolerance for religious diversity; and generally we celebrate differences. I feel it is possible for people to live together peacefully, without giving up important pieces of their identies/culture.

I have worked with many Muslim women, personally. I have found they are like everyone else: some are happy, some find strength in their faith, some are more conservative and some are more liberal. They love their families and work hard. I have often marvelled at the devotion many of these women show to their families.

Steve: I am wondering why you feel that others must practise whatever religion they choose BUT IN PRIVATE. Why in private? Do you mean: people can believe whatever they want, but they must follow the majority when it comes to being in public?

Perhaps Muslim1 does dislike western democracy.
I'll ask him: Muslim1 do you have a dislike or disrespect of Western democracy?

Honestly, I don't see why that is so shocking.
In the West, there are many instances of strong dislike and disrespect for forms of government and religious beliefs that are not our own. People tend to choose or live as they see best; otherwise they would change.

What we need now is greater tolerance on a global level.
Hatred and ignorance on any side is dangerous for us all.

thank you

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muslim1 wrote:

Terry,

Terry wrote:
Why does it not occur to you that the problem here is not how Muslim women dress, but how Muslim men behave?

Why do you suppose that Muslim men are so lacking in self-control that the sight of an exposed leg would inflame them

Certainly, the man has a share of responsibility in whether a rape, teasing or molestation happens or not. But, the woman who exposes her body is the major factor.

"I hear the cuckoo singing in the cuckooberry tree..."
You may say it's the fault of the maiden, but I must disagree,
It is only little boys who cannot control their tool,
Putting blame upon the victim makes you a total fool.

Quote:

Terry wrote:
while most Western men are able to behave appropriately even when confronted with beaches full of bikini-clad young ladies?

Are you sure? The highest rape rates are in the west. Here is an example from the U.S:
American Rape Statistics
In the "Islamic" countries, you'll find much lower rates.

And what's the rate of the inappropriately named "honor killings," o' murderous one?
Ya think? Evil or Very Mad

Ya think that raping your daughter and / or sister and then murdering her because she's dishonored might be just a leetle more viciously barbaric than yer average seaside rape?
Maybe? Ya think?
In the immortal words of Mr. T.... "Fool."

Quote:

When Islam was rightly implemented (in the time of the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and the guided leaders of Islam), adultery rate was near zero per cent.

Now, what I love, and I really, really do, just love the above statement.
This does indeed sum up the Islamic Radical Jihad Fascist Death Cult Murderer philosophy in one simple concept: Our aim is to re-establish the al-Salaf al-Salih. All else are takfir; kufar...
Unfortunately, y'all ignore around a thousand years of Islamic history and practice when ya boil down to that kind o' fantasy pudding.
Which does explain why nothing you say or do makes any sense.
A people who deny their history are no people at all...

Quote:

Terry wrote:
It was degradation to treat women as household slaves

Household slaves? No, that's not the role of a Muslim woman. In Islam, the woman in her house is the main builder of the society. When she covers her husband with care, compassion and love, she helps him to be so successful in his job and responsibility; It is well known that "Behind every successful man, there is a woman".
By raising her children correctly, the mother carefully constructs future generations.

Terry wrote:
who could be abused with impunity by their fathers/husbands

I know about a religion which calls for husbands to treat their wives in the kindest of ways, that is ISLAM. God (Allah in Arabic) says: "live with them (wives) on a footing of kindness and equity" [Holy Qur'an 4:19]
I know about a religion which considers the best of men those who love and care about their wives, and that is ISLAM. "The best of you are the kindest to their wives and I am your best to mine", is a teaching by prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).

Nice, very nice.
Gotta inform the ulema though... No matter where ya go, them uppity scholar type people always seem to think that women rank below slaves... and non-believers... and particularly Muslim males.
You should enlighten them with your beliefs.
I am sure they would appreciate it.

Quote:

And Allah knows best

Well, mebbee over in them furin' lands, but heah, well heah, Father Knows Best... Well, maybe... Perhaps Donna Reed knows best...
But what about Wally and the Beav?
Decisions, decisions, decisions...
:wink:

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I agree with much of what you say Flush. You ask

"Steve: I am wondering why you feel that others must practise whatever religion they choose BUT IN PRIVATE. Why in private? Do you mean: people can believe whatever they want, but they must follow the majority when it comes to being in public?"

Because I think all true religion is private. Between the the individual and the most profound ideas that person is capable of in considering the divine.

Organised religions are nothing but instruments of power, that power wielded for the benefit of those who control them.

What is intolerable is placing loyalty to faith group above loyalty to fellow citizen. This is demonstrated by public exhibitions of faith imo. Acceptance of the secular law must come first. This is exactly what the muslims will not do. They demand our tolerance for their practices, (which is almost always given) but if they ever got control they would ban many of the freedoms we currently enjoy, above all the freedom of religious expression.

Tolerance has its limits. We cant tolerate the intolerant any longer.

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Moishe

you said

"Islamic Radical Jihad Fascist Death Cult Murderer philosophy in one simple concept: Our aim is to re-establish the al-Salaf al-Salih."

well I wouldnt go quite as far as that.....

because you said it Smile

I've got to be honest here. I have never been interested in religions. I thought some were complete nonsense others more sophisticated but all to be left alone. That is I thought if an individual was weak of intellect enough to treat myth as truth then so be it. But no longer. Peddling myth as truth is morally wrong. And if its done to children its child abuse.
And the exploitation of religious ideas to inspire acts of terrorism in furtherance of a clear political objective is an evil which must be extirpated.

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steve said:

>>Tolerance has its limits. We cant tolerate the intolerant any longer.<<

Geez, exactly what I have been thinking about the doings of Americans. Smile

I am only half joking.

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Again thats a fair point Flush. Desperate people do desperate things. Drug addicts are often desperate, and the entire Western world with America leading is addicted to cheap oil from the middle east. That explains what they are doing there, and I agree its not very nice. But that is a battle for the control of a strategic resource, not a battle of ideas. In the battle of ideas, western enlightenment wins over islamic primitivism every time.

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double post

sure you all got the drift first time

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Damn, I hate to be disagreed with so thouroughly like that... Sigh...
Okay Steve, you win. You're right.
I went too far.
Thanks for setting me straight.
Razz

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I've been doing a little research on Islam.

What I've found so far is this.

No records of Mohammed from his lifetime exist.
The religion known as Islam was put together not earlier that 100 years after his death and took many years to evolve into the form we know it today.

Although Mohammed was surrounded at all times by scribes who wrote down all that he did and said...not one single artefact from those times exists.

Islam is based on a form of Judaism as practiced by the Samaritans. Islam has many corresponding figures and events to those depicted in the Old Testament.

It spread rapidly because the ancient tribes of Arabia liked to raid and plunder other tribes.

The Koran (and particularly the Hadith) as we know it today has undergone many changes, and therefore it cannot be the last, perfect and unchangeable word of God.

Islam claims the early converts of Jesus as Muslims. There is no evidence for this and in fact it is patently absurd.

Muslims deny anything can happen without it being God's will. Therefore they must reject chance, probability, statistics and quantum physics.

Mohammed changed the direction of prayer (according to Muslims) towards Mecca. Yet the earliest Mosques (but built after Mohammed) have prayer niches pointing north towards Jerusalem.

The central problem is this. We know virtually nothing about Mohammed. All that we know is myth and legend codified by the earliest Islamic scholars over the several hundred years after his death.

This leads me to conclude

Islam is a religion but cannot be described as the one true religion. The fact that so many muslims believe it to be so is at the root of Islamic intolerance. Certain Islamic beliefs e.g. creationism are patently absurd and contradicted by what we can observe about our universe.

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steve said >>
Again thats a fair point Flush. Desperate people do desperate things. Drug addicts are often desperate, and the entire Western world with America leading is addicted to cheap oil from the middle east. That explains what they are doing there, and I agree its not very nice. But that is a battle for the control of a strategic resource, not a battle of ideas. In the battle of ideas, western enlightenment wins over islamic primitivism every time.<<

I simply disagree. I feel it is a battle of ideas. If you would care for me to elaborate, I will do so with much pleasure.

I think though , by you including the final sentence "In the battle of ideas, western enlightenment wins over islamic primitivism every time."...you destroyed your first arguement. You proved my point.

thanks!

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well either i missed something or you did.

there are 2 battles going on imo, one for control of resources

one for control of ideas.

What we are doing to ensure continual supply of oil can't be justified on any moral basis.

But on a different level, the battle of ideas between tolerance and intolerance, between enlightenment and bigotry and between rationalism and superstition has not been joined with sufficient vigor imo.

the two battles are separate and distinct. If it comes down to "them and us" i think it quite possible to sympathise with "them" on one issue, and with "us" on the other.

Just because Britain and America are guilty of waging illegal aggressive war in Iraq to secure oil, does not mean the followers of osama bin laden are paragons of virtue.

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"Despite appearances, the fact remains thousands have left Islam behind along with other childish beliefs from Father Christmas to the Tooth Fairy. A few courageous souls have not only resisted the "irresistible" but braving family and friends, social ostracism, mob violence, and state assassinations and executions, have also come out of the closet, and have made their unbelief a matter of public record: Salman Rushdie, Taslima Nasrin, Anwar Shaikh, Ali Sina, Mahmoud, Syed Mirza Ali, Mohsen, to name some of them."

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Why Critical Scrutiny of Islam is an Utmost Necessity!

By Syed Kamran Mirza
[email protected]

Islam, the last shackle of freedom for mankind is under tremendous scrutiny throughout the world. Muslims in general react violently when they find Muslims or non-Muslims critiquing Islam. Most Muslims blame the critic for singling out Islam and they claim Islam is the most tolerant and peaceful religion. Some of them immediately utter the one and only Quranic tolerant verse in their memory: No compulsion in religion..(2:256). Others try to rationalize Islam by saying: "every religion is equally culprit or bad, so let's not talk or criticize any religion". Unfortunately, I never can agree with this notion. To me all may be bad but some are worst than the other. All diseases are bad, but some are more dangerous/lethal than the other. Likewise, all religion may be bad, but according to me Islam is the worst as per the negative affect to the individual level or society in general.

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Listen, I am not a Muslim myself, but when exactly did this thread become a vehicle for spreading hate, Steve?

To disagree is one thing. You are doing nothing more here than trying to spread your own idea of the 'right way to live'. Perhaps you should allow others to voice their understanding of Islam. That way, we might all actually learn something.

Also, I wanted to point out that your fine country has many Muslim citizens. They are Americans. Do you harass them on the street and shout to them "terrorists"? I sincerely hope not. This is exactly where America is going wrong: you are enemies to yourselves.

thanks

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