10
   

Dems respect diversity but how deeply?

 
 
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2019 07:31 am
Traditionally it is the Dems who promote diversity as a positive response to racism and narrow-mindedness they perceive on the right, but how deep does their respect/appreciation for diversity really go?

In many ways they are opposed to traditional Christianity, and do they really appreciate traditional Jewish and Muslim religion or do they only appreciate secular ethnic cultural traditions, such as traditional foods, dress, music, etc.?

In short, are Dems really capable of appreciating and/or respecting deep religious beliefs, which may contradict certain political interests they hold, as part of respecting diversity? Or can they only respect and appreciate diversity as long as it aligns with their political program(s)?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 10 • Views: 2,280 • Replies: 149

 
hightor
 
  5  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2019 08:36 am
@livinglava,
It would be stupid to speculate, as if voting for Democrats requires someone to toe a particular ideological line. You could get a room full of "Democrats" and find many different views on diversity. The Democratic Party itself reflects "diversity".
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2019 10:49 am
@hightor,
Quote:
The Democratic Party itself reflects "diversity".


Nonsense. Try being a pro-life Democrat. (Such a thing does exist, but life isn't easy for these heretics).

oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2019 11:20 am
@maxdancona,
Or a pro-Second-Amendment Democrat who believes in arguing the merits of ideals instead of political dirty tricks.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2019 11:41 am
@oralloy,
Or a Democrat who questions the MeToo movement...

The ideological diversity of today's Democrats is remarkably narrow.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2019 01:00 pm
@maxdancona,
There are Democrats who oppose abortion. There are Democrats who have reservations about "me too". Mature people can balance pluses and minuses when making decisions about individual candidates and vote for individuals even if the party platform might not be 100% to their liking. When a person enrolls as a "Democrat" they aren't indoctrinated with the party line and forced to support everything the party stands for. That's ridiculous.

Anti-abortion Democrats know what the score is — a large majority of the party supports reproductive rights so it would be very divisive to suddenly change party policy to one which opposes abortion. As long as federal funds aren't being directly used to pay for abortions and women aren't being compelled to undergo the procedure, personal opposition to abortion remains just that — personal.
blatham
 
  5  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2019 01:08 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
In short, are Dems really capable of appreciating and/or respecting deep religious beliefs, which may contradict certain political interests they hold, as part of respecting diversity? Or can they only respect and appreciate diversity as long as it aligns with their political program(s)?
You are putting the focus on religious beliefs/believers here. This is a fairly modern American right wing line of thinking. During the anti-war and anti-nuke movements, for example, religious figures were commonly the most prominent voices. obviously, those were mainly left wing causes and it would have been no surprise at all to see the Catholic Berrigan brothers marching beside Bertrand Russell (decidedly not a believer).

Further, it is difficult to really make sense of what appears to be your underlying notion - that faith is under attack from the left. As I've noted before, there are some 400,000 congregations in the US christianity Today By comparison, there are exactly zero Atheist Temples.

The usual manner in which your apparent protest manifests is in claims that where folks like myself might say to a particular sort of believer "Sorry, but you don't get to establish moral or ontological truths that (because of their perceived purity or because of your certainties) the rest of us must live by. Abortion, for example. None of us on the left demand that others must get abortions. We think it's your decision. We think goveernment has no legitimate role here other than health and safety (as in all medicine).

So if you consider that christians or any other faith group stand above the rest of us in righteousness and can therefore determine how we live our lives, we'll tell you to go **** yourself.

Hope this helps.

maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2019 01:30 pm
@hightor,
Let me say this in a personal way...

I am feeling alienated by the Democratic party. It is the party of outrage, anyone questioning or disagreeing with any part of the core ideologically is publicly shamed. I don't feel comfortable in Democratic organizations, and many of the rigid ideological positions of Democratic candidates upset me. It is not just that I disagree with them, it is that my voice on issues where I disagree with the Democratic dogma is silenced and sometimes attacks.

I am not the only person feeling this way. It is a fact that many of us Americans feel that the Democratic party is pushing us away.
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2019 02:00 pm
@maxdancona,
It sounds like you're better off with the Republicans.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2019 02:26 pm
@InfraBlue,
It is the home of Grab them by the pussy after all.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2019 02:45 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

It sounds like you're better off with the Republicans.


Hmmmm... that is an interesting point. Maybe I am better off with the Republicans. My core values; social programs, free speech, and racial justice line up better historically with the Democrats. But hell, if the Democrats don't want me, maybe the Republicans do. Finding a party where angry White women in pink hats don't yell at me about how despicable I am would be nice.

The attitude you are displaying here is the reason that the Democrats lost the election (and that Trump is president). You win elections by reaching out to voters, telling them you want their votes and working to earn them.

If you tell "deplorable" voters they can take a hike, you are going to lose elections.
thack45
 
  3  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2019 02:58 pm
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:

Traditionally it is the Dems who promote diversity as a positive response to racism and narrow-mindedness they perceive on the right, but how deep does their respect/appreciation for diversity really go?

In many ways they are opposed to traditional Christianity, and do they really appreciate traditional Jewish and Muslim religion or do they only appreciate secular ethnic cultural traditions, such as traditional foods, dress, music, etc.?

In short, are Dems really capable of appreciating and/or respecting deep religious beliefs, which may contradict certain political interests they hold, as part of respecting diversity? Or can they only respect and appreciate diversity as long as it aligns with their political program(s)?


Okay I've pored over the thing like three times, but I can't find that anywhere in the pamphlet
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2019 03:04 pm
I am a little curious about what the phrase "traditional Christianity" means. But, I am afraid to ask.

Do we go back to the first century? Do we look to the Catholics of the council of Nicea? Luther?

There is very tradition in Christianity as practiced in the US now that is older than 150 years.


RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2019 03:04 pm
The deems have not become anti religious. As a matter of fact the leaders have come pay to too much attention to the ultraconsertive religions because they fear their attacks. The present leaders of the democrat party are middle of the road to slightly conservative. There is no liberal party as such. Only a few liberal politicians who are attacked by their own party. No wonder they have been a minority party. Most people can't tell the difference between dems and republicans. With Obama care much of the opposition was from LIBERAL legislators.

maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2019 03:09 pm
@RABEL222,
On women's issues, anti-racism and LGBTQIA issues, American Democrats are pretty far to the extreme left. I don't think there is any party in other countries to the left of American Democrats on many of these issues. Americans are leading the charge on these issues internationally.

On economic issues... yes American Democrats are centrists compared to many other countries.
0 Replies
 
thack45
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2019 03:11 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I am a little curious about what the phrase "traditional Christianity" means. But, I am afraid to ask. Do we go back to the first century? Do we look to the Catholics of the council of Nicea? Luther?


omg I was literally thinking exactly that. Either way you slice it, you'd be as hard pressed to find a "traditional christianity" as you would to find "traditional America values". Typical evocative babble in the spirit of riling up the conservative minded
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  4  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2019 03:31 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

It sounds like you're better off with the Republicans.


Hmmmm... that is an interesting point. Maybe I am better off with the Republicans. My core values; social programs, free speech, and racial justice line up better historically with the Democrats. But hell, if the Democrats don't want me, maybe the Republicans do. Finding a party where angry White women in pink hats don't yell at me about how despicable I am would be nice.

The attitude you are displaying here is the reason that the Democrats lost the election (and that Trump is president). You win elections by reaching out to voters, telling them you want their votes and working to earn them.

If you tell "deplorable" voters they can take a hike, you are going to lose elections.

More precisely, if you tell "deplorable" voters they can take a hike, you are going to lose elections in a jacked up voting system. Non-deplorable voters overwhelmingly voted Democratic by about 3 million votes.

Good luck hobnobbing with the "Jews will not replace us" crowd.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2019 03:35 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
Good luck hobnobbing with the "Jews will not replace us" crowd.


Let's make it perfectly clear what you are implying. You are saying that everyone who disagrees with the Democrats is a Nazi? Or am I misunderstanding you. This is the problem with extremism. There is no middle ground.

In a year, the Democratic party apparatus is going to set up phone banks. They will ask for volunteers to call up everyone who might be in the middle to ask them for our votes. I know how this works, because in the past I have worked a Democratic phone bank.

The specific goal during an election is to persuade as many people as you can to vote for you regardless of whether they are completely in ideological lockstep with you. During a phone bank, you specifically ask the person at the other end of the line "can I count on your vote for [the Democratic candidate]".

Maybe you will volunteer for a phone bank (it is a good way to support your political side).... however your attitude now is directly counter to this.

Once you call someone a Nazi, you can't realistically ask for their vote.
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2019 03:52 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
I am feeling alienated by the Democratic party.

I do sometimes as well. But I still feel that Democratic control of the government will lead to better policies than anything the GOP would try to do.

Maybe you're no longer a "party" person. Nothing wrong with that, just define yourself as a political independent. Lots of people do.

Quote:
It is the party of outrage, anyone questioning or disagreeing with any part of the core ideologically is publicly shamed.

Well that's how political parties operate — they form around particular ideologies. So you either bite your tongue concerning certain issues (like pro-abortion Republicans do) or you leave the party. One thing, though — you can't be "shamed" if you have the courage of your convictions.
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2019 03:55 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
Good luck hobnobbing with the "Jews will not replace us" crowd.


Let's make it perfectly clear what you are implying. You are saying that everyone who disagrees with the Democrats is a Nazi?

Or am I misunderstanding you. This is the problem with extremism. There is no middle ground.
Once you call someone a Nazi, you can't realistically ask for their vote.


I am not saying that everyone who disagrees with the Democrats is a Nazi.

You are misunderstanding me. The point I'm making is that, seeing as how there are only two viable political parties in the US, each party is going to have its fringe elements, its extremists.

I didn't call anyone a Nazi. The "Jews will not replace us" crowd can be described as neo-nazis, however.
 

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