8
   

Dems respect diversity but how deeply?

 
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2019 10:03 am
@livinglava,
The problem is that the Democratic party in 2019 is controlled by people with a narrow ideology. Of course I am not saying that angry middle aged women should be kicked out of the party. I am saying that they should not monopolize the discussion within the party.

Right now, most of the discussion in the Democratic party address the goals of ideologically liberal middle class women. There is a little discussion about Black Lives Matter (but not much) and a little discussion about immigration (but only reluctantly).

The worse thing is an either/or mentality that pushes away any discussion or questioning of current ideological dogma. Anyone suggesting that MeToo has gone too far will be called a "rape enabler". Anyone supporting any limits on abortion is said to be against women's healthcare.

In truth, it is perfectly logical to support some of the positions of the Democratic party without being in lockstep with the ideology. There are many of us who do just that. You can agree with restrictions on abortion without wanting women to die without health care. You can criticize the excesses of the MeToo movement while opposing rape.

The Democratic party of 2019 is hostile to dissent. I have no problem with the pink hat crowd having a voice in the Democratic party. I have a big problem when they shut down any other voices.

(Just to cut this silly thing off... yes, the Republican party is at least as bad. So what.)
neptuneblue
 
  4  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2019 05:11 pm
@maxdancona,
Blah, blah, blah.

All I heard was a rant against women and women's issues. It seems the only narrow mindedness is coming from you. Women make up 50% of the population yet you seem to think women's issues should take a back seat to EVERYTHING, ANYTHING else.

If women's issues is pushing you out of the democratic party, just go already. You don't care anyway, so why all this blathering?
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2019 05:30 pm
@neptuneblue,
1. You are another person telling me to leave the Democratic party in a thread about the problem with diversity of opinion in the Democratic party. Again, this kind of proves my point.

2. Women's issues aren't about women. They are about a particular brand of ideologically left politics. There are tens of millions of women who disagree politically.

The idea that women can be lumped together into a set of narrow opinions seems a little backwards.

3. Obviously I do care, or I wouldn't be wasting my time doing all the blathering. I want a democratic party that can tolerate a range of different perspectives. That matters.
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2019 05:41 pm
@maxdancona,
I'm saying if you're not happy, then go. Nobody is forcing you to be a part of something you don't believe in.

Yes, women's issues ARE about WOMEN. You know, not about a MAN.

The narrowness comes form YOU, not anyone else. Your inability to recognize a whole host of issues that concern WOMEN instead of MEN makes you go crazy.

Sorry Max, but moobs don't count as boobs. Get your tits squeezed by a cold, metallic devise twice a year or spread your legs in stirrups, THEN come talk to me about how women's issues aren't important.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2019 05:48 pm
@neptuneblue,
Quote:
Yes, women's issues ARE about WOMEN.


No, what you are calling "women's issues" is a left ideology that many women oppose. Whether someone agrees with you depends on their political ideology, not their gender. There are tens of millions of conservative women who disagree with you and tens of millions of liberal men who are in lockstep agreement.

I don't know what your issue is with mammograms and pap smears. I believe that they are both very important. I suppose I should be grateful that as a man I never have to undergo uncomfortable or embarrassing medical procedures.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2019 05:54 pm
I just want to get this absolutely straight, Neptune.

You are saying that anyone who doesn't support your views on women's issues should not vote for the Democratic candidate next November. Is that right?
neptuneblue
 
  4  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2019 05:58 pm
@maxdancona,
Max, one MORE time...

Women's issues are about women. If you don't get the concept that there are many "issues" women have that men don't, then I'll refer you back to middle school, where they can teach you the differences between boys and girls.

Even conservative women have vaginas. Surely you can acquiesce to that.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2019 06:03 pm
@neptuneblue,
Quote:
Even conservative women have vaginas. Surely you can acquiesce to that.


So what. People don't think with their genitals, we think with our brains. Conservative women disagree with you on the areas you call "women's issues".

There are women (and men) who are conservatives who mostly disagree with you about "women's issues". There are women (and men) who are liberals who mostly agree with you. Of course there are many women (and men) who are in the middle, agreeing with you some issues and disagreeing on others based on their own judgement.

Why do you think their genitals matter more than their opinions?
neptuneblue
 
  4  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2019 06:08 pm
@maxdancona,
Why do YOU think men's opinions matter more than women's?
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2019 06:14 pm
@neptuneblue,
neptuneblue wrote:

Why do YOU think men's opinions matter more than women's?


You are the one who is arguing that gender matters. I have stated it very clear... The argument over "women's issues" is about politics, not about gender. The opinions break down along political lines, not gender lines.

Your gender has nothing to do with the importance of your opinions.

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2019 06:26 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I just want to get this absolutely straight, Neptune.

You are saying that anyone who doesn't support your views on women's issues should not vote for the Democratic candidate next November. Is that right?



I wish you would answer this. It is a rather important question for tens of millions of us, and it may very possibly determine who is in the White House for the next four years.
0 Replies
 
neptuneblue
 
  4  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2019 06:28 pm
@maxdancona,
Women's issues, by definition, are about gender. So in turn, politics does revolve around that. If you don't get that and want a different path, then there is another political party you can register with.
maxdancona
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2019 06:34 pm
@neptuneblue,
Ok, good. One clear answer to the most important question.

Neptune says that people in the middle should vote for the Republicans (even if we identify more with the Democrats on most issues).

Anyone else want to weigh in on this important issue (there is a possible election at stake here)?
neptuneblue
 
  4  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2019 07:33 pm
@maxdancona,
What would you like me to tell you?

You're disenfranchised with the democratic party. Ok, I get it. Your choice to to vote a different way. That's how a democracy, in all respects, is done. You don't have to agree with every single one of the issues on the table. You can vote where your values tend to align. How deeply you feel about certain issues will weigh your decision.

This isn't complicated, Max. Just go where you need to go.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2019 07:45 pm
@neptuneblue,
You have this backwards. The key to a democracy is voters. A political party needs voters. Voters don't need political parties. A political party can be narrow, supporting a narrow ideology and pushing out all dissent. Or, a political party can build a broad coalition.

Obama built a coalition, he invited in and welcomed women and minorities along with working class White people. He didn't pit one side against the other, and he welcomed people who disagreed with him on important topics to be a part of his coalition. After the election he continued to work hard to reach out to the other side.

Hillary did the opposite. She ran her gender. She ran away from White working class voters. People felt insulted by what she said.

The Democrats in 2020 can run an Obama like campaign... and they will earn my enthusiastic support. If they run a Hillary like campaign, I don't want to have to hold my nose again.

The voter is the key to a democracy. Political parties have to reach out to voters, the voters don't owe anything to political parties. If voters are feeling alienated by a political party... that isn't the voter's problem.

The Democrats have to earn my vote... that is if they want it. If the Democrats take your attitude toward voters, that the best way to get 4 more years of Trump.

Quote:
Democrats 2020. If you don't like it, take a hike.
neptuneblue
 
  4  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2019 07:54 pm
@maxdancona,
I didn't feel insulted by what she said or did. Millions of voters felt the same way. In fact, she won the popular vote, if I recall correctly. She didn't win the presidency, but if you'd like to keep bringing that up, you have much in common with the republicans.

If YOU feel alienated then that's a point for you to consider as you change party affiliates. Personally, I think you just want to bitch rather than actually SAY you'll vote democratically in the next election.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2019 07:59 pm
@neptuneblue,
You're wasting your time talking about gender with Max. He hates and fears women. He has demonstrated this for years.
maxdancona
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2019 09:19 pm
@Setanta,
The score...

Neptune = No
Sentanta = No
Infrablue = No

Is there anyone here (besides me) who thinks that the Democrats should support a diversity of opinion in the Democratic party?
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2019 09:23 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
I just want to get this absolutely straight, Neptune.
You are saying that anyone who doesn't support your views on women's issues should not vote for the Democratic candidate next November. Is that right?
I'm a Democrat. I've been happily voting a straight Republican ticket for the past decade now.

It works for me. Give it a try.

Besides, Trumpism is America's future. It's going to be another 18 years before we see a Democratic president back in the White House. And even then it will only be a moderate Democrat. Then 8 years later the Republicans will be back in control again.

The 21st century is a Republican century. Why not join the winning team?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2019 09:32 pm
@oralloy,
That ain't gonna happen Oralloy. I find "Trumpism" to be even more odious than anything in the extreme left. There is no way in Hell I support Trump. I don't think you are right about Republicans being a winning team, but we will see. It seems to me that Trump is destroying the Republican party faster than the ideological left is destroying the Democrats.

I don't know what happens if after Trump fails (and he is failing) a reasonable Republican comes to face the ideological left in the Democratic party.



 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
GAFFNEY: Whose side is Obama on? - Discussion by gungasnake
 
Copyright © 2020 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 07/15/2020 at 01:04:34