If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

In my opinion, there is a Hell even though Jesus died for our sins. The reason there is a Hell is because God gave us the opportunity to repent of our sins through submission of water, baptism. Just because he died for us did not mean there was going to be "good" people here on earth. There was still going to be people who kill, murder, rape, etc., and therefore we have the opportunity to repent of our sins and be forgiven by God. Those people that kill, and do vicious things to people, and don't repent then guess what, they are not going to go to "heaven", if they never repent.

Opinions without facts or evidence is most often wrong; they are called guesses - or fiction.

I agree with you, but all the things that I said are facts that are in the Bible.

You can't use the bible to support what the bible says; it must be "outside/independent" evidence/proof.

Have you ever studied logic?

cool, so there's a Narnia too (it's in a book)

Yes I have. So then what do you believe? What are your facts?

My "facts" are those that have been shown by scientists through evidence/proof and consistency of results.

Existence is surely a form of "evidence" that leaves many questions unanswered by science. Existence as evidence besides being called guesses or fiction can also be called "faith". Faith is something science is sterile of along with many other unanswered questions of reality. So because science cannot pinpoint exactly what the essence of life, [not as in DNA but even deeper] spirit, afterlife, life before existence, infinity, parallel universes, God they must all be fiction? NO, science is limited and the only way to speculate beyond science is by faith. Just because faith is incorporated in the consciousness of a person does not mean it is fact or fiction and myth or history. It is speculation that can be either true or false. Science does not know and has no business crediting or discrediting most faith.

How does science prove there is no God? It can't... All science can see is its own myopic existence and nothing more. All other considerations are in the realm of faith and if we want to understand faith it must be considered, reasoned and in the end perhaps even believed. Faith comes by hearing the word of God written in the heart of those who believe.

Deuteronomy 32:20 KJV
And he said , I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

Mark 4:40 KJV
And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?

Mark 11:22 KJV
And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.

Romans 3:27 KJV
Where is boasting then? It is excluded . By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Romans 4:20 KJV
He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

Romans 5:2 KJV
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand , and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Romans 9:32 KJV
Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law [science]. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone ;

Romans 14:22 KJV
Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth .

1 Corinthians 2:5 KJV
That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men [science], but in the power of God.

Comment: One cannot have faith through science because faith is outside the realm of what science can ascertain through its limited methods.

The word "occult" means "hidden" Science will never be able to observe what is hidden by God the occult can only be observed through faith.

1 Corinthians 15:14 KJV
And if Christ be not risen , then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

I believe in the message of Christ but I do not believe in the historical Christ I believe in Jesus by faith.

2 Corinthians 5:7 KJV
(For we walk by faith, not by sight [science] )

Ephesians 2:8 KJV
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves [science]: it is the gift of God:

Philippians 3:9 KJV
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law [science], but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Colossians 2:12 KJV
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

1 Timothy 1:4 KJV
Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

1 Timothy 3:9 KJV
Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV
But the natural man [scientist] receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned [faith].

Peace with God

Narnia was written to parallel biblical hermeneutics imagery according to its writer C. S. Lewis as was also Lord of the Rings by J.R. Tolkien ...

Was Gandalf a cleverly concealed version of Jesus Christ? Quite probable in many instances.

Is there a Narnia? Perhaps we are living in Narnia as we speak in faith.

It seems that you know as much about neuronal activity as you know about rat dogs.



Science has nothing to do about proving the existence of imaginary friends.

And your venom and spite shows your lack of faith and charity. You must live in a pathetic mind.

Keep you dismal self worshiping philosophy of limited science perhaps in the next life it will buy you a place in this world as a rat dog.

You're one shade away from it now as it is.

Faith can be seen in many ways; some believe in santa clause, and some in a biblical character called jesus. They were all written by men, and some outgrow their need to believe in things or people who do not exist - or never existed.

We don't need to prove that humans have a need for some supreme deity that can answer our prayers or allow for an afterlife; human history is full of them.

I repeated this often on a2k, but repeat here for your consideration. Religion is an accident of birth. Think about that; digest it, and try to realize what that all means.

I realize this may be a shameless promotion, but the question of whether the Bible is reliable is being discussed here:
http://able2know.org/topic/139616-1

Considering 90% of the world population (6,692,030,277 people as of 2008) believe in some form of religion, it seems the fittest survived.

So who is a throw back of a lesser evolved species? The few atheists that are left are perhaps likened to the neanderthals in brain capacity and understanding of the divine. Maybe even more so like single celled amoebas who eat and sleep and can't think beyond their one dimensional existence.

I certainly have no lessons to learn from hypocrites like yourself.

Especially when it cames to charity.

Your beliefs in the next life shows how you resent your present one.

It inevitably leads to the old expression: get a life!

There is a consequence for our sins, to be sure. but it is not eternal punishment. It is, rather, the same punishment God deemed for Adam and Eve when he warned . . . "But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die." (Genesis 2:17)

That they did not die in the 24 hour day of their sin should be no surprise, since the creative days were obviously much longer than 24 hours in length.

But, the point here is, if there were to be something in addition to death, such as baking, broiling, frying, or boiling, it would certainly have been mentioned here.

When you're dead, your dead. Punishment enough, "For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin. (Romans 6:7)

You obviously missed my previous message, so I'll repeat again.

Religion is an accident of birth.

Truth, then, should be independent

However, I healed pretty well..

Evolution affects population, not individuals...since "not believing in god or gods" is proliferating in humans, we can say that it is our next change in evolution...nothing that still alive today has stopped evolving...and we can also say that theism is getting further down the evolutionary ladder in the human specie.