If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

You will never be able to make a coherent argument from the point of view that your source of propositions is a fairy tale. Every time you flap your lip, you're in straw man territory.

You see; if the bible is correct, then all this talk about how nasty is God for killing all those 'innocents' is simply a straw man.

Frank Apisa wrote:

neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Read Revelation Chapter 12 verses 1 through 9.

You yourself noted Satan was still roaming around Heaven at the time....and at the time...there is a woman bearing a child in pain.

Childbirth in pain, Neo. And Satan is apparently still on speaking terms with your god.

Get it?????

And this particular verse is to be taken literally to mean what?.

Why don't you stop with the games?


Grow up.


According you your "theory"...the only way there can be pain in childbirth...whether figurative or literal...is if the temptation of Eve already occurred...and Satan has already sinned.

Now we have a passage with Satan still having free rein...only now facing the forces of Michael.

Did your god forget that Satan had f****d up the entire of creation? Did you god overlook the fact that Satan had just screwed up paradise for all these human things that the god had such wonderful plans for?

Why...if at least 9 months earlier...Satan had spit in your god's face...

...why is Satan still doing his thing in Heaven?

Talk about your cart before the horse. Your cart has eaten the horse! In fact, I'm not sure exactly what you are saying, so let's take your points oldest first.
Satan sinned when he tempted Eve. That he was not thrown out of heaven immediately is shown by the his conversation in heaven with God recorded in the book of Job. The passages from Isaiah and Ezekiel, quoted earlier, are prophetic, not historical.

The scripture I cited and you apparently ignored in Proverbs 8:24 uses birth pains as a figure of speech. Revelation, being written in signs, also uses birth pains for the figurative woman in a figurative way. Satan is finally cast out of heaven in a time far removed from John's writing, so we may assume that he was able to roam back and forth between heaven and earth until that time. I said 'we,' not you, Frank.

God has endured the spitting in the face for considerably longer than 9 months, Frank. (BTW, where did that 9 months come from?) He knew he would have to endure False representatives and misrepresentations, but He allowed Adam and Eve's descendants to be born anyway. That worked out OK for me, because I'm happy to have been born. Perhaps you are not, but I can't help that other than to try to help you over this baby step of logic.

All this may seem like an overly long time to You, Frank. But, do you think God reckons time in the same way you do?

neo wrote:

You will never be able to make a coherent argument from the point of view that your source of propositions is a fairy tale. Every time you flap your lip, you're in straw man territory.

But according to your argument

Quote:

You see; if the bible is correct, then all this talk about how nasty is God for killing all those 'innocents' is simply a straw man.

Frank would be in straw man territory only if he assumes the bible is correct. He doesn't, therefor he is not in straw man territory.

Ahhh...your idiot god manages to go so ballistic over one act of disobedience by two people who did not even know that there was anything wrong or evil about disobedience...that he severely punishes the two AND ALL REST OF HUMANKIND forever...but Satan, supposedly the author of this "terrible" fall gets a free pass.

Your religion is an absurdity...and the mythology upon which it is based does not rise to the level of Alice in Wonderland.

I'm going to the shore for a day on the beach. You ya all have a good time doin' whatever yer doing this fine day.

InfraBlue wrote:

neo wrote:

You will never be able to make a coherent argument from the point of view that your source of propositions is a fairy tale. Every time you flap your lip, you're in straw man territory.

But according to your argument

Quote:

You see; if the bible is correct, then all this talk about how nasty is God for killing all those 'innocents' is simply a straw man.

Frank would be in straw man territory only if he assumes the bible is correct. He doesn't, therefor he is not in straw man territory.

The point is just that. He uses the bible to make his point, How can he make any point with what he guesses to be a flawed proposition?

Tell me if this makes any (common) sense: 1. all humans must pay for the original sins of Adam and Eve, and 2) jesus died for our sins. What's the problem with this picture?

Frank Apisa wrote:

Ahhh...your idiot god manages to go so ballistic over one act of disobedience by two people who did not even know that there was anything wrong or evil about disobedience...that he severely punishes the two AND ALL REST OF HUMANKIND forever...but Satan, supposedly the author of this "terrible" fall gets a free pass.

Your religion is an absurdity...and the mythology upon which it is based does not rise to the level of Alice in Wonderland.

I'm going to the shore for a day on the beach. You ya all have a good time doin' whatever yer doing this fine day.

You argue that our opportunity for life is a punishment?

Where did you get the idea that Satan had a free pass?

Show me when the seventh creative day ends and I'll show you Satan was given only one 'day' to live also.

Have a good day at the beach, Frank!

You argue that our opportunity for life is a punishment?

That is not what I am arguing at all. I am arguing that your idiot god went ballistic and punished Adam and Eve...and all the rest of humanity for one minor incident.

If you want to suppose there would have been no humanity if Adam and Eve sinned...do so. Most of your supposition (sic) are so illogical and inane...one more illogical, inane one will not topple the cart.

Where did you get the idea that Satan had a free pass?

If Satan truly sinned during the time of Adam and Eve....how could he still be visiting Heaven during the times suggested in the Revelation passage.

Stop the pretence, Neo. It is fooling no one but yourself.

Show me when the seventh creative day ends and I'll show you Satan was given only one 'day' to live also.

Do both yourself if you feel like it. But at some point, you have to explain how Satan was still in heaven at the time of the Revelation passage...which obviously was after the Eden incident.

Have a good day at the beach, Frank!

I had a ball, thank you. Actually, I enjoy every day of my life.

neologist wrote:

You argue that our opportunity for life is a punishment?

Frank Apisa wrote:

That is not what I am arguing at all. I am arguing that your idiot god went ballistic and punished Adam and Eve...and all the rest of humanity for one minor incident.

Explain why you say it was a minor incident. If it was a minor incident, why bother to record it?

Frank Apisa wrote:

If you want to suppose there would have been no humanity if Adam and Eve sinned...do so. Most of your supposition (sic) are so illogical and inane...one more illogical, inane one will not topple the cart.

Speaking of inane, what the heck are you talking about? 'if Adam and Eve sinned'; what does that mean?

neologist wrote:

Where did you get the idea that Satan had a free pass?

Frank Apisa wrote:

If Satan truly sinned during the time of Adam and Eve....how could he still be visiting Heaven during the times suggested in the Revelation passage.

Stop the pretence, Neo. It is fooling no one but yourself.

What is your suggestion as to where he should have been?

neologist wrote:

Show me when the seventh creative day ends and I'll show you Satan was given only one 'day' to live also.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Do both yourself if you feel like it. But at some point, you have to explain how Satan was still in heaven at the time of the Revelation passage...which obviously was after the Eden incident.

Why should I have to explain it? The bible says he was. Why don't you explain why he should not have been? And, don't dismiss my question about the seventh day, Frank. The fact that it has not yet ended is more than just a minor point.


Poor Neo...he realizes that he cannot explain it...because it is so absurd...so he now must play games rather than simply acknowledge that he can't.

You claimed Satan sinned in Eden.

Yet we now find that after Eden...Satan was still in Heaven.

Get over it, Neo. The book is an absurdity. The entire religion is an absurdity in this day and age. It has already served its purpose...which was for the use of superstitious people of an earlier age...written and inspired by men...not gods.

neologist wrote:

neologist wrote:

You argue that our opportunity for life is a punishment?

Frank Apisa wrote:

That is not what I am arguing at all. I am arguing that your idiot god went ballistic and punished Adam and Eve...and all the rest of humanity for one minor incident.

Explain why you say it was a minor incident. If it was a minor incident, why bother to record it?

Frank Apisa wrote:

If you want to suppose there would have been no humanity if Adam and Eve sinned...do so. Most of your supposition (sic) are so illogical and inane...one more illogical, inane one will not topple the cart.

Speaking of inane, what the heck are you talking about? 'if Adam and Eve sinned'; what does that mean?

neologist wrote:

Where did you get the idea that Satan had a free pass?

Frank Apisa wrote:

If Satan truly sinned during the time of Adam and Eve....how could he still be visiting Heaven during the times suggested in the Revelation passage.

Stop the pretence, Neo. It is fooling no one but yourself.

What is your suggestion as to where he should have been?

neologist wrote:

Show me when the seventh creative day ends and I'll show you Satan was given only one 'day' to live also.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Do both yourself if you feel like it. But at some point, you have to explain how Satan was still in heaven at the time of the Revelation passage...which obviously was after the Eden incident.

Why should I have to explain it? The bible says he was. Why don't you explain why he should not have been? And, don't dismiss my question about the seventh day, Frank. The fact that it has not yet ended is more than just a minor point.


Poor Neo...he realizes that he cannot explain it...because it is so absurd...so he now must play games rather than simply acknowledge that he can't.

You claimed Satan sinned in Eden.

Yet we now find that after Eden...Satan was still in Heaven.

Get over it, Neo. The book is an absurdity. The entire religion is an absurdity in this day and age. It has already served its purpose...which was for the use of superstitious people of an earlier age...written and inspired by men...not gods.

Frank Apisa wrote:

neologist wrote:

neologist wrote:

You argue that our opportunity for life is a punishment?

Frank Apisa wrote:

That is not what I am arguing at all. I am arguing that your idiot god went ballistic and punished Adam and Eve...and all the rest of humanity for one minor incident.

Explain why you say it was a minor incident. If it was a minor incident, why bother to record it?

Frank Apisa wrote:

If you want to suppose there would have been no humanity if Adam and Eve sinned...do so. Most of your supposition (sic) are so illogical and inane...one more illogical, inane one will not topple the cart.

Speaking of inane, what the heck are you talking about? 'if Adam and Eve sinned'; what does that mean?

neologist wrote:

Where did you get the idea that Satan had a free pass?

Frank Apisa wrote:

If Satan truly sinned during the time of Adam and Eve....how could he still be visiting Heaven during the times suggested in the Revelation passage.

Stop the pretence, Neo. It is fooling no one but yourself.

What is your suggestion as to where he should have been?

neologist wrote:

Show me when the seventh creative day ends and I'll show you Satan was given only one 'day' to live also.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Do both yourself if you feel like it. But at some point, you have to explain how Satan was still in heaven at the time of the Revelation passage...which obviously was after the Eden incident.

Why should I have to explain it? The bible says he was. Why don't you explain why he should not have been? And, don't dismiss my question about the seventh day, Frank. The fact that it has not yet ended is more than just a minor point.


Poor Neo...he realizes that he cannot explain it...because it is so absurd...so he now must play games rather than simply acknowledge that he can't.

You claimed Satan sinned in Eden.

Yet we now find that after Eden...Satan was still in Heaven.

Get over it, Neo. The book is an absurdity. The entire religion is an absurdity in this day and age. It has already served its purpose...which was for the use of superstitious people of an earlier age...written and inspired by men...not gods.

Sterling example of quote management. I just had to save it for posterity.

I guess you are right, Frank. I can't explain why Satan was still in heaven at the time of Job much less a few thousand years later. Nor am I able to explain why this is an important issue to you. Of course, that doesn't mean there is no explanation.

Perhaps you are offended because God does not reckon time in the same way as you. You may think Moses simply forgot to record the end of the seventh creative day.

All the time since the Edenic rebellion is but a tick in the cosmic clock. It may seem like a long time to you and I who measure our lives in sub-ticks, but it assuredly is not a long time to God or to Satan.

You are correct. You cannot explain it!

Lip Flap, Yapitty Yap. While you're at it, why don't you curse God for giving Satan authority over the earth? (Matthew 4:9, John 14:30)

Or do you guess he should be in hell firing up the ovens?

Or perhaps you would listen to why Satan is the 'ruler of this world'?


NYAAAH!

Why are some so bold as to presume our feeble minds would allow us to understand why God does what God does? It takes temerity, or as in this case, a lack of belief in God. God has infinite wisdom. It is the height of foolishness to suggest you ought to be able to understand His ways, or that the fact that you don't indicates His nonexistence.

God has infinite wisdom.