If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

neologist wrote:

Let's see . . . Satan didn't sin before tempting Eve . . and after tempting Eve it was apparent that he had sinned . . .hmm.

Not before . . .
Not after . . .

Yet Jesus called him the 'father of the lie'.

This could take a while, Frank. Anyone else care to jump in?

Poor Neo...stuck for an answer...so he trys (sic) mocking the question.

Neo...you have mouthed off about not accepting anything that is not in the Bible.

You have also asserted that Satan did not sin before his encounter with Adam...(an assertion apparently made because you want your idiot god to be taken by surprise that Satan tempted Eve.)

Now...I am asking you to furnish the Biblical reference that tells us when Satan was thrown out of heaven from the host of angels.

You show enough ignorance with your posts without doing any pretense of ignorance, Neo.

Answer the question or dodge it...but don't try to make the question the problem.

[
Answer the question or dodge it...but don't try to make the question the problem.

If you want to guess that God must of necessity read the minds of his creatures, OK. If you want to guess that a perfect man had the reasoning ability of a kindergartner, OK.

But if you say you have read the bible over and over...

.... and can't remember the heavenly conversation Satan had with God in the book of Job, you get the Homer this time. DOH!

Satan had access to both heaven and earth until this event: "And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him." (Revelation 12:7-9)

BTW, where did you get the idea that I don't accept anything that is not in the bible? The bible was not written to explain everything, Frank. That's why a member of the intelligentsia like you might have trouble understanding it.

No, you did not give me the answer...and still haven't. And you were attempting to make the question the problem.

If you want to guess that God must of necessity read the minds of his creatures, OK. If you want to guess that a perfect man had the reasoning ability of a kindergartner, OK.

And if you want to guess there is a God...OK. If you want to guess that Adam was a perfect man...OK. If you want to guess that the Bible tells us the true nature of REALITY...OK. But if you want to guess that Adam and Eve knew right from wrong...good from evil despite the fact that your Bible specifically tells us that they did not....that is not OK.

That is just ignorant.

But if you say you have read the bible over and over...

WARNING...STRAW MAN ALERT!

I defy you to find any post by me that says I have read the Bible over and over again....or even intimated that I have read the Bible over and over again.

.... and can't remember the heavenly conversation Satan had with God in the book of Job, you get the Homer this time. DOH!

WARNING...STRAW MAN ALERT!

Where have I ever said that I cannot remember the "heavenly conversation Satan had with God in the Book of Job?"

Do you make this shyt up yourself...or do have help?

Satan had access to both heaven and earth until this event: "And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him." (Revelation 12:7-9)

Hummmm....but there is a problem with this scenario, don't you think, Neo.

You did read the parts of Chapter 12 that precedes this citation, did you not? And you did pay attention to what was said in verse 2 of that Chapter. You do understand the implications of that verse, do you not?

BTW, where did you get the idea that I don't accept anything that is not in the bible? The bible was not written to explain everything, Frank. That's why a member of the intelligentsia like you might have trouble understanding it.

On several occasions I've seen you claim that such and such is not in the Bible...and you then reject it. If I come across one of them, I will post it.

neologist wrote:

"]Satan had access to both heaven and earth until this event: "And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him." (Revelation 12:7-9)

Frank Apisa wrote:

Hummmm....but there is a problem with this scenario, don't you think, Neo.

You did read the parts of Chapter 12 that precedes this citation, did you not? And you did pay attention to what was said in verse 2 of that Chapter. You do understand the implications of that verse, do you not?

Certainly. Do you?

Neo...obviously you are some kind of a retard, so I will ignore most of the babbling in your last post and concentrate on just one item.

You did read the parts of Chapter 12 that precedes this citation, did you not? And you did pay attention to what was said in verse 2 of that Chapter. You do understand the implications of that verse, do you not?

Cetainly. Do you?

Definitely.

And since you claim to also...why not deal with it.

I would love to hear your take on this.

You realize, of course, the the book of Revelation was written in signs, right? (Revelation 1:1)
And that the woman and child might not be literal, right?

You recall that organizations serving God were often referred to as women, I hope.

Then the woman referred to in Revelation 12:2, being a heavenly woman, would be god's heavenly organization.

And the offspring would be the kingdom referred to in Daniel 2:44: "And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite."

Before you die laughing, read the parallels between what the child of the woman will accomplish as compared to the kingdom mentioned in Daniel, the kingdom folks often unknowingly pray for when they recite the Lord's Prayer.

Then laugh, Frank. I have absolutely no expectation this will mean anything at all to you. To someone who respects the bible, perhaps, but not you.

Hello...Neo.

What does that tell you? Why should that ring a bell for you?

And after you answer the bell...

...you want to figure out how come Satan is "still roamin' round de heaben all de day!"

You will never be able to make a coherent argument from the point of view that your source of propositions is a fairy tale.

Every time you flap your lip, you're in straw man territory.

Your failure to understand that provides me an excellent forum. Keep up the good work.

You know, I find your profession of agnosticism quite understandable aside from your attempts to use the bible to explain it.

I also sympathize with your depiction of nominal christianity, save for the fact that the bible contradicts nominal christianity as well.

Have a nice day, Frank

neologist wrote:

Have a nice day, Frank

You too, Neo.

Do visit the new thread.

You are at a loss as to how to deal with the issue I raised...and you are now pretending there is some other reason for your not dealing with it.

Frank Apisa wrote:

neologist wrote:

Have a nice day, Frank

You too, Neo.

Do visit the new thread.

I did

BTW, what issue? I thought you were just breaking wind.

Frank Apisa wrote:

You are at a loss as to how to deal with the issue I raised...and you are now pretending there is some other reason for your not dealing with it.

Read Revelation Chapter 12 verses 1 through 9.

You yourself noted Satan was still roaming around Heaven at the time....and at the time...there is a woman bearing a child in pain.

Childbirth in pain, Neo. And Satan is apparently still on speaking terms with your god.

Get it?????

Frank Apisa wrote:

Read Revelation Chapter 12 verses 1 through 9.

You yourself noted Satan was still roaming around Heaven at the time....and at the time...there is a woman bearing a child in pain.

Childbirth in pain, Neo. And Satan is apparently still on speaking terms with your god.

Get it?????

And this particular verse is to be taken literally to mean what?.

neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Read Revelation Chapter 12 verses 1 through 9.

You yourself noted Satan was still roaming around Heaven at the time....and at the time...there is a woman bearing a child in pain.

Childbirth in pain, Neo. And Satan is apparently still on speaking terms with your god.

Get it?????

And this particular verse is to be taken literally to mean what?.

Why don't you stop with the games?


Grow up.


According you your "theory"...the only way there can be pain in childbirth...whether figurative or literal...is if the temptation of Eve already occurred...and Satan has already sinned.

Now we have a passage with Satan still having free rein...only now facing the forces of Michael.

Did your god forget that Satan had f****d up the entire of creation? Did you god overlook the fact that Satan had just screwed up paradise for all these human things that the god had such wonderful plans for?

Why...if at least 9 months earlier...Satan had spit in your god's face...

...why is Satan still doing his thing in Heaven?