If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

What has religion got to do with your solid marriage and freedom from alcoholism? there are people with solid marriages who are sober who don't believe in god.

A few years after I asked my mother about the crucifixion, I decided that hell is a stupid notion and a corruption of the idea of re-incarnation. Re-incarnation allows the creatures to learn, grow and develop. That made sense to my 15 year old self and makes sense today.

As I clearly said, the "people" or sentient beings on other planets. To believe we here on earth are alone in the universe is far too egotistical. In fact, that is to believe that we are gods.

Second, how do you know what god intended? I would call it extreme egotism to make that claim.

Third, re-incarnation is not a revolving door. Re-incarnation involves growth. you do know that the doctrine of re-incarnation posits one directional growth and that people do not "come back" as slugs or cats.

First of all, I am an agnostic. No one's notion of god makes sense.

Second, how do you know what god intended? I would call it extreme egotism to make that claim.

To believe we here on earth are alone in the universe is far too egotistical. In fact, that is to believe that we are gods.

the bible...

We aren't alone in the universe as th eBible amply shows.

But I submit to you that the discord we see here on earth could never before have happened in the universe nor could it happen again.

I only relate to you what has been shown to me in the Bible. I'm not intelligent enough or righteous enough (hardly) to have discovered it myself.

It seems to me that you might not be able to figure out what discord is or to measure it by your own admission.

thunder wrote:

God doesn't send people to hell for no reason, he gives us the chance for forgiveness...free-will...we pretty much decide where we go...accept God as the only way you can save yourself, and you will be on your way.

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Who's to say George Bush won't go to hell for supporting drilling in the ANWAR or waging war on Iraq? Who's to say a woman who chooses to have an abortion, because, after being married for 15 years and raising her one child, accidentally conceives again, but thinks the world is over-populated, won't go to heaven for her virtue? Who's to say that Mother Theresa didn't go to hell for having been too cosy with industrialists? What if the people in hell are named Sloan and Ford and Hoover (both Herbert and J. Edgar)?

But, I know the Bible is fiction and folklore.

neo -- That's a non sequitor.

The world has mostly clean living, good and sober people. I was just trying to say that the Bible provides a sound guide for living. You can't go wrong if you follow it. Additionally, it provides information about God's purpose for the earth and how he plans to accomplish it. Not knowing this information could be tragic. (John 17:3, Rev 18:4)

neologist wrote:

The world has mostly clean living, good and sober people. I was just trying to say that the Bible provides a sound guide for living. You can't go wrong if you follow it. Additionally, it provides information about God's purpose for the earth and how he plans to accomplish it. Not knowing this information could be tragic. (John 17:3, Rev 18:4)

I hope you do not follow it's advice on how to deal with your children (Deuteronomy 21:18-21

mesquite wrote:

neologist wrote:

The world has mostly clean living, good and sober people. I was just trying to say that the Bible provides a sound guide for living. You can't go wrong if you follow it. Additionally, it provides information about God's purpose for the earth and how he plans to accomplish it. Not knowing this information could be tragic. (John 17:3, Rev 18:4)

I hope you do not follow it's advice on how to deal with your children (Deuteronomy 21:18-21

Harsh by our standards, true. Rare, hopefully. The Hebrew law was supposed to set them apart from the nations. And what were the nations like in 1500 BC? The Canaanites practiced child sacrifice in a most brutal fashion. History is full of the excesses of the Babylonians and Assyrians. So by comparison the Jews had a paradise.

But Jesus fulfilled the old law and established a new one. We don't have to stone our children, as much as we might like to. Actually, Christian parents are supposed to emulate Jesus in the way they raise their children.

But, I know the Bible is fiction and folklore.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets. I have come, not abolish them, but to fulfill them. Of this much I assure you: UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, NOT THE SMALLEST LETTER OF THE LAW, NOT THE SMALLEST PART OF A LETTER, SHALL BE DONE AWAY WITH UNTIL IT ALL COME TRUE." Matthew 5: 17ff

frank wrote:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets. I have come, not abolish them, but to fulfill them. Of this much I assure you: UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, NOT THE SMALLEST LETTER OF THE LAW, NOT THE SMALLEST PART OF A LETTER, SHALL BE DONE AWAY WITH UNTIL IT ALL COME TRUE." Matthew 5: 17ff

Frank, how many times are we going to argue over this? We know that he didn't change the laws, he came to fulfill them. He is our sacrifice, and our payment for being bad.