kickycan wrote:Two things.
1. I believe that Frank and Momma Angel WOULD be friends if they ever met.
Yeah...I think she'd love me.
(And you might mention that we have discussed her during our beer and carousing sessions...and both of us have said very nice things about her!)
Oh yeah, I did forget to mention that, didn't I? Yup, we have said very nice things about you, Momma.
On the other hand, we have also said nice things about Joe Nation, so maybe it was just the beer talking...
Ok, ok, maybe I would like you! Well, at least part of you. Frank, it's not that I don't like you, it's I don't like some of the things you stand for. I guess that's a better way of stating it.
So, maybe, let's compromise to that?
Hi Kickycan! Nice to see you!
And Frank, in those discussions where you said nice things about me? Thank you. I do appreciate that.
You are just as tenacious about your issues and I am about mine. We are a lot alike in that respect.
But, I do like this type of discussion better than some of the others!
We'll drink to you this Thursday night, MA.
I promise!
A full-fledged toast....to MA...to Intrepid...and even to Neo.
We'll be on the deck of an old lightship that use to function in New York Harbor. We'll be watching the sun set over beautiful New Jersey...with its very impressive new skyline.
The breeze will be fabulous...there will be dozens upon dozens of working ships passing us...tugs, fireboats, cruise ships. (Saw the Queen Mary II steam by not too long ago.)
Their running lights will be lit...we will probably be a bit lit ourselves.
You will all be there with us...in spirit, if not in actuality.
Yup.
Kicky...if I get toasted and forget about this...you remind me, hear! (I ain't gonna forget!)
Oh...we'll get Joe to take a picture of the moment...and post it here.
Frank Apisa wrote:We'll drink to you this Thursday night, MA.
I promise!
A full-fledged toast....to MA...to Intrepid...and even to Neo.
We'll be on the deck of an old lightship that use to function in New York Harbor. We'll be watching the sun set over beautiful New Jersey...with its very impressive new skyline.
The breeze will be fabulous...there will be dozens upon dozens of working ships passing us...tugs, fireboats, cruise ships. (Saw the Queen Mary II steam by not too long ago.)
Their running lights will be lit...we will probably be a bit lit ourselves.
You will all be there with us...in spirit, if not in actuality.
Yup.
Kicky...if I get toasted and forget about this...you remind me, hear! (I ain't gonna forget!)
I thought you didn't take strong drink, Frank.
I'd have offered you a cool one by now.
So cheers, Frank.
neologist wrote:
Can you or Frank show any place in the bible where any of the writers cast doubt on Satan's culpability?
Or accuse God?
If God had set Adam and Eve up for failure, how confident would Moses have been when he went up to face Pharaoh?
I can just see it now:
Moses saying 'Er, Jehovah. Er, 'scuse me. You stiffed Adam and Eve and now you want me to say what?'
You don't have to believe the bible, but your argument that the bible is inconsistent or that God is somehow the cause of evil is astounding.
Isn't the god of the bible supposed to be omnipotent? Didn't he know from the start what would happen in the garden? How could it have turned out any other way? It's kind of a Jessica Rabbit thing..."I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way" The bible is myth and legend, with a smattering of history.
As t the other:
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, KJV)
P
Pauligirl wrote:neologist wrote:
Can you or Frank show any place in the bible where any of the writers cast doubt on Satan's culpability?
Or accuse God?
If God had set Adam and Eve up for failure, how confident would Moses have been when he went up to face Pharaoh?
I can just see it now:
Moses saying 'Er, Jehovah. Er, 'scuse me. You stiffed Adam and Eve and now you want me to say what?'
You don't have to believe the bible, but your argument that the bible is inconsistent or that God is somehow the cause of evil is astounding.
Isn't the god of the bible supposed to be omnipotent? Didn't he know from the start what would happen in the garden? How could it have turned out any other way? It's kind of a Jessica Rabbit thing..."I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way" The bible is myth and legend, with a smattering of history.
As t the other:
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, KJV)
P
God is no more obligated to look into every possible future event than you are obligated to read the last chapter of the whodunit.
BTW, you never answered my question about whether you are a fan of the Phantom (of the opera)
Well, one of the rationalizations put forward about JHWH's omniscience is that while he can know everything at once, he merely chooses not to.
Frank Apisa wrote:shiyacic aleksandar wrote:
I am an agnostic.
I do not know if there is a God .... I do not know if there are no gods...
....and I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction.
Quote:
Knowledge(gnosis) will step into ones mind when ones frees himself from scepticism and civilizational conditionning.
Man's character gets transformed into good or bad depending on his company. Noble company bestows noble feelings and bad company gives rise to evil traits. Your speech and conduct are based on your feelings. You deserve to be called a human being only when you develop good feelings. Form alone does not constitute a human being. A true human being is one who embodies good habits, helps ever and hurts never. You should not merely be an human in form; you should become human in conduct. Speak good, see good, do good and be good. Divinity will manifest in you only when your conduct is good.
And I suppose you want to be the arbiter of what is and is not "good?"
Is it "good" to pretend that an obviously fictional god who has just about every negative trait imaginable (jealous, vindictive, retributive, vengeful, quick to anger slow-to-forgive, petty, tyrannical, murderous, barbarous)...is in fact loving, understanding and compassionate?
Is that good in your book?
Gimme a break.
I am a human being despite your desire to classify me as something other because of your silly "beliefs."
I am a decent, moral, intelligent, trustworthy...as anyone else in this forum.
Go peddle your snake oil to others like yourself.
God is not involved in handing out either rewards or punishments. He only reflects, resounds and reacts. He is the Eternal Unaffected Witness! It is you who make your destiny. Do good, be good, and you will get good in return; perform bad deeds, and you reap only bad consequences. Do not praise or blame God for your fate! God does not even will that creation, protection and destruction take place. They follow in their own natural course, according to the innate laws of the universe.
shiyacic aleksandar wrote:God is not involved in handing out either rewards or punishments. He only reflects, resounds and reacts. He is the Eternal Unaffected Witness! It is you who make your destiny. Do good, be good, and you will get good in return; perform bad deeds, and you reap only bad consequences. Do not praise or blame God for your fate! God does not even will that creation, protection and destruction take place. They follow in their own natural course, according to the innate laws of the universe.
Why are you trying to pass off these kinds of silly guesses as facts?
These are Gods words,they are not mine!
:wink:
shiyacic aleksandar wrote:These are Gods words,they are not mine!
:wink:
Bullshyt. They are your words.
Ask Him loudly and youll get an answer!
It is true that behind almost all the wars and fighting going on in the world is a religious division. There should not be any problem in a religious division. There have been places where Christians, Jews and Muslims have lived together in peace for hundreds of years. Spain was one of them. The religious division may be there, but as soon as there is an outer problem, for example on the political/economic level, then the religious division comes to the fore and takes precedence. It is dealing with people's religious beliefs which, for many, are the strongest emotional ties they have.
When India was divided there were terrible massacres. Trainloads of Indians (Hindus) would be massacred by Muslims (and vice-versa) while Pakistan was only being formed. They came from India and they were used to being Indians but they were not Hindus, they were Muslims. So there was conflict between Muslims and Hindus rather than between India and Pakistan. Then Bengal, which was part of Pakistan, became involved and, again, there was conflict between Muslims and Hindus. Then Bangladesh was formed and the same thing happened.
Whenever the outer political/economic pressures cannot be resolved relatively easily, it always turns into a religious divide. And it will go on. It was and still is so in Northern Ireland, although the fighting has stopped; it is so in Nigeria and other parts of Africa. It will be the last of all the big intolerances in the world to be resolved. The religious beliefs of a people are closer to them than anything else, which is another way of saying that the relationship of humanity to what we call God is stronger than we admit it to be. It is the strongest thought in the minds of most people in the world. Only the sophisticated intellectuals of Europe and a few other countries take a broader view and are not committed to any particular religion.
Only if you have given up religion early in your life do you take this stance. Otherwise the fear of being separated from the country which you identify with your religion is paramount. Until we learn to be more tolerant, this will continue.
There are three big associations of mankind: political, economic and religious, which if wrongly handled become a corrupt ideology or totalitarianism. There are the political ideologies: Democrats, Fascists and Communists and so on. Political totalitarianism has waned and is really in decline.
Economic totalitarianism at the moment is rampant. That is what Maitreya will be addressing more than anything else because it is the key to the others, to the tolerance which is needed to deal with the others. Last to go, but now at the height of its power and influence, is religious totalitarianism. If you are at the top there is only one way you can go, and that is down. Gradually its influence will lessen, but it will take time.
I can't believe it!
SA, Frank and neo all seem to agree on one thing:
Organized religion is at the core of human suffering.
Correct?
Neo,
I'm not so sure it's organized religion at the core of human suffering. Isn't it more what man has done with organized religion?
Actually it's religion itself that is at the heart of evil. Organization only makes it more efficient.
