If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

neologist wrote:

It's an oversimplification and a red herring designed to draw you into his straw man argument. But, go ahead and try.

It is neither an oversimplification nor a strawman and you know it. Saying it does not make it so. If you could find any passages in the Bible where God is on the scene and not threatening, killing, or ordering killing or some other such barbary then you would be posting it.

On the other hand there are hundreds of passages where the God of the Bible is on the scene and is threatening, killing, or ordering killing or some other such barbary.

mesquite wrote:

neologist wrote:

It's an oversimplification and a red herring designed to draw you into his straw man argument. But, go ahead and try.

It is neither an oversimplification nor a strawman and you know it. Saying it does not make it so. If you could find any passages in the Bible where God is on the scene and not threatening, killing, or ordering killing or some other such barbary then you would be posting it.

On the other hand there are hundreds of passages where the God of the Bible is on the scene and is threatening, killing, or ordering killing or some other such barbary.

The logical trap comes about when you assert that God set up Adam and Eve for failure. That spuriously puts the responsibility for all the world's misery on God, not Satan. The hundreds of passages where there is threatening, killing, etc. would not exist if it were not for the rebellion in Eden. They are lessons for us about the real consequences of sin.

But, as I told Frank, those who died are no more or less dead than any others who died either by the sword or peacefully in their sleep. And they are no less deserving of the resurrection and chance for life promised by Jesus at John 5: 28,29.

You can zip zap and flipflap your lip slap all you want and it can't change the fact that as far as the bible writers were concerned, the originator of sin is Satan.
His name means 'rebel' or 'resister';
The word 'devil' means 'slanderer';
The book of Job gives insight into Satan's accusations against both God and man.

Can you or Frank show any place in the bible where any of the writers cast doubt on Satan's culpability?
Or accuse God?

If God had set Adam and Eve up for failure, how confident would Moses have been when he went up to face Pharaoh?
I can just see it now:
Moses saying 'Er, Jehovah. Er, 'scuse me. You stiffed Adam and Eve and now you want me to say what?'

You don't have to believe the bible, but your argument that the bible is inconsistent or that God is somehow the cause of evil is astounding.

Knowledge(gnosis) will step into ones mind when ones frees himself from scepticism and civilizational conditionning.

Man's character gets transformed into good or bad depending on his company. Noble company bestows noble feelings and bad company gives rise to evil traits. Your speech and conduct are based on your feelings. You deserve to be called a human being only when you develop good feelings. Form alone does not constitute a human being. A true human being is one who embodies good habits, helps ever and hurts never. You should not merely be an human in form; you should become human in conduct. Speak good, see good, do good and be good. Divinity will manifest in you only when your conduct is good.

Knowledge(gnosis) will step into ones mind when ones frees himself from scepticism and civilizational conditionning.

Man's character gets transformed into good or bad depending on his company. Noble company bestows noble feelings and bad company gives rise to evil traits. Your speech and conduct are based on your feelings. You deserve to be called a human being only when you develop good feelings. Form alone does not constitute a human being. A true human being is one who embodies good habits, helps ever and hurts never. You should not merely be an human in form; you should become human in conduct. Speak good, see good, do good and be good. Divinity will manifest in you only when your conduct is good.

Who did the punishing...of all of humanity for one act of disobedience by people who did not know good from evil?. . .You people are pathetic.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Who did the punishing...of all of humanity for one act of disobedience by people who did not know good from evil?. . .You people are pathetic.

You consider it punishment to have been born with the opportunity for life. I consider it an act of mercy that Adam and Eve were allowed to bear children so we might be born. If God had destroyed Adam and Eve on the spot, you and I would not be having any conversations at all, much less this one.

And Satan would have proved his point.

Jesus Christ...but you are so trite. Perhaps that is why I find you so goddam boring.

If you want to "believe" that ridiculous fairytale....and go on being happy that Dick and Jane (or whatever they were called in this particular fairytale) received an act of mercy when the out-of-control god of the Bible went apeshyt when they did something they had no idea was wrong...

...and punished them and all the rest of humanity forever for this supposed terrible slight...

...go right ahead.

We have more than enough pity for you to go around.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Jesus Christ...but you are so trite. Perhaps that is why I find you so goddam boring.

If you want to "believe" that ridiculous fairytale....and go on being happy that Dick and Jane (or whatever they were called in this particular fairytale) received an act of mercy when the out-of-control god of the Bible went apeshyt when they did something they had no idea was wrong...

...and punished them and all the rest of humanity forever for this supposed terrible slight...

...go right ahead.

We have more than enough pity for you to go around.

Actually my name is Bob, Frank. Sorry you got confused.

Perhaps it is because Jesus himself is reported to have believed what you summarily dismiss. Obviously, Moses and the other bible writers believed Satan to be the culprit. They may have been, as you say, totally wacko to believe in God in the first place. But they certainly believed what they wrote.

Tico,

I am with you. It is sad and as much as Frankhas railed against Christians and their beliefs, my heart does go out to him.

Momma Angel

Frank,

I do not HAVE to "suck up" as you call it. I have free will. I choose God. I choose Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. And I will shout it as loudly and as joyfully as I can until the day I die.

So, I'm happy. But thanx for the "respect."

Frank,

I mean this with the deepest sincerity. You and I would never be friends. I respect your right to your beliefs, guesses, estimates, etc. I respect your right to voice them. I respect you as a human being; therefore, I would not belittle you nor be abusive towards you. However, I do not respect your abusive manner. Also, I would not and could not be friends with someone that is so obviously discriminatory of those that believe in God or those that do not agree with you.

That is not a judgement, by the way. That is my discernment of the situation and I have the right to be friends with whom I choose, just as you do.