If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

Intrepid wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
You will never accept my challenge, MA....because there are no passages that fit the bill (with the minor exception I've already mentioned.)

You are laughable to pretend that you are not doing it out of keeping with your faith.

If there were passages available...you, Neo, Intrepid, and all the rest of you sheep would be posting them one after another.

NONE OF YOU can take me up on the challenge, because you are all wet on this issue.

What challenge is that, Frank?

The one I have offered on several occasions, Intrepid.

I claim that the god of the Bible...the god Jesus worshipped...is a jealous, tyrannical, vengeful, vindictive, revenge driven, quick-to-anger slow-to-forgive, petty, murderous, barbarian.

Others...you included...claim that the god is a compassionate, understanding, loving of humanity god.

I claim I can back up my contentions by posting passages showing the god being jealous, tyrannical, vengeful, vindictive, revenge driven, quick-to-anger slow-to-forgive, petty, murderous, and barbaric.

In fact, I have posted many such passages already.

I challenge any of you to post passages from the Bible showing the god in action...being on the scene talking, advising, doing, acting....where the thrust of the activity does not involve being jealous, tyrannical, vengeful, vindictive, revenge driven, quick-to-anger slow to forgive, petty, murderous, barbaric, threatening and such.

So far...nobody has offered a single passage of that sort.

Would you care to try?

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neologist wrote:

It's an oversimplification and a red herring designed to draw you into his straw man argument. But, go ahead and try.

It is neither an oversimplification nor a strawman and you know it. Saying it does not make it so. If you could find any passages in the Bible where God is on the scene and not threatening, killing, or ordering killing or some other such barbary then you would be posting it.

On the other hand there are hundreds of passages where the God of the Bible is on the scene and is threatening, killing, or ordering killing or some other such barbary.

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Ticomaya wrote:

neologist wrote:
Tico; How come Frank seems to avoid you?...

He's never before ... maybe he's ignoring me now. There have been several liberals doing that this week. I dunno .... <shrug>

Quote:
... do you really look like that?

Yes.

I have never ignored you, Tico....and I never will. Although we disagree...and disagree considerably on many, many issues...I feel that over the years we've had many interesting and reasonably friendly discussions.

These people seem to think I ducked a question from you. The question was repeated to me by someone else...and I answered it completely.

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mesquite wrote:

neologist wrote:
It's an oversimplification and a red herring designed to draw you into his straw man argument. But, go ahead and try.

It is neither an oversimplification nor a strawman and you know it. Saying it does not make it so. If you could find any passages in the Bible where God is on the scene and not threatening, killing, or ordering killing or some other such barbary then you would be posting it.

On the other hand there are hundreds of passages where the God of the Bible is on the scene and is threatening, killing, or ordering killing or some other such barbary.

Thank you once again, Mesquite. Neo has no alternative but to pretend that what I am asking is a red herring.

And can you get over that these people are accusing me of ducking stuff???

They certainly are students of the "big lie" school.

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How many do you want, Frank?

Jeremiah 31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

You have still not answered Tico's question regardless of your claim to having done so. Why not post your answer, Frank?

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Frank,

You haven't given any opinions of God? I'm confused. In another thread somewhere you said everything you post is in your opinion. I got the guess, estimate, thing down, but now I am confused. If it's not your opinion, what is it?

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Frank,
I consider such head in the sand thinking dangerous to this country because the result of it is what put a totally incompetent man in the presidency.

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Intrepid wrote:

How many do you want, Frank?

Jeremiah 31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

You have still not answered Tico's question regardless of your claim to having done so. Why not post your answer, Frank?

Intrepid...I CAN GIVE A THOUSAND OF THAT KIND. Yeah...people telling everyone else what the god has given them. I can get that kind of shyt right here in A2K...no need for a Bible to find blind sheep willing to give their silly god credit for everything.

I want any passage that shows the god actually on the scene...speaking, acting, doing.

Go to the first five books of the Bible. That is where the god is actually doing and talking.

Find two passages in all those books where the major thrust of the event being described has the god being understanding, compassionate, loving....and where the god is not threatening, punishing, killing, asking others to kill.

It should not be a difficult assignment.

As for the Tico question...I have answered that f*****g question several times...and I am tired of your petty pretence that I haven't. Read the goddam responses I linked...or get someone with a brain to read it to you.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:
neologist wrote:
Tico; How come Frank seems to avoid you?...

He's never before ... maybe he's ignoring me now. There have been several liberals doing that this week. I dunno .... <shrug>

Quote:
... do you really look like that?

Yes.

I have never ignored you, Tico....and I never will. Although we disagree...and disagree considerably on many, many issues...I feel that over the years we've had many interesting and reasonably friendly discussions.

Agreed.

Quote:

These people seem to think I ducked a question from you. The question was repeated to me by someone else...and I answered it completely.

See the other thread.

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TICO....is there any part of your question that you want me to answer in any greater detail.

After reading the links I've offered...are you also of the opinion that I have not answered your question?

If you really feel that I have short changed you on the answer...please let me know and I will expand upon it.

I am really tired of this silly bullshyt from these characters saying that I have ducked you.

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All said with my usual charming, loveable smile on my face.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

All said with my usual tanned smile on my face.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Frank,

You haven't given any opinions of God? I'm confused. In another thread somewhere you said everything you post is in your opinion. I got the guess, estimate, thing down, but now I am confused. If it's not your opinion, what is it?

MA...try to use your brain.

I have not been giving any opinions about God.

I have been giving opinions about the god of the Bible...which, to the best of my guessing ability, is about as close to God...as is Saddam Hussein.

Get it?

When I am talking about the god of the Bible...I am not talking about God.

Notice the capital letter on God.

The god of the Bible is not close enough to a real God to deserve a capital "G."

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Intrepid,

There is one part of Frank's challenge that you cannot answer. But, it is not that Frank is correct in his charactization of God. God did not speak to mankind in the NT as He did in the OT. We had Jesus on the earth then.

It wouldn't matter if you found a thousand verses to counter his point. In my opinion, he would not accept them.

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Ticomaya wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
All said with my usual tanned smile on my face.

Actually...I've been playing so much golf...and spending so many days at the beach...I suspect I could give Snood a run for his money in the "tan" department.

Thank you for mentioning it, Tico.

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Ok Frank,

Then you tell me who God is? You guess, estimate, think, feel, believe, imagine, whatever, that it's not the God of the Bible. So, who is it?

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Momma Angel wrote:

Intrepid,

There is one part of Frank's challenge that you cannot answer. But, it is not that Frank is correct in his charactization of God. God did not speak to mankind in the NT as He did in the OT. We had Jesus on the earth then.

It wouldn't matter if you found a thousand verses to counter his point. In my opinion, he would not accept them.

Well..find two. And we'll see!

All you gotta do is find passages that show the god of the Bible...the god that Jesus worshipped and called his father...to be kind and compassionate and loving....and not killing, threatening, or asking that others be killed in its name.

Let's see you do it.

Then we will see.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

Intrepid wrote:
How many do you want, Frank?

Jeremiah 31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

You have still not answered Tico's question regardless of your claim to having done so. Why not post your answer, Frank?

Intrepid...I CAN GIVE A THOUSAND OF THAT KIND. Yeah...people telling everyone else what the god has given them. I can get that kind of shyt right here in A2K...no need for a Bible to find blind sheep willing to give their silly god credit for everything.

I want any passage that shows the god actually on the scene...speaking, acting, doing.

Go to the first five books of the Bible. That is where the god is actually doing and talking.

Find two passages in all those books where the major thrust of the event being described has the god being understanding, compassionate, loving....and where the god is not threatening, punishing, killing, asking others to kill.

It should not be a difficult assignment.

As for the Tico question...I have answered that f*****g question several times...and I am tired of your petty pretence that I haven't. Read the goddam responses I linked...or get someone with a brain to read it to you.

Frank, could you explain to me what that has to do with the topic of this thread? If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

The story of Jesus is in the last 27 books of the bible.

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Intrepid wrote:

How many do you want, Frank?

Jeremiah 31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

You have still not answered Tico's question regardless of your claim to having done so. Why not post your answer, Frank?

Intrepid,
How about some context, OK. Going just four verses forward of your citation in order to get the meaning of "at the same time"

Quote:

Jeremiah 30:23
23 Behold, the whirlwind of the LORD goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.
24 The fierce anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it.

Jeremiah 31
1 At the same time, saith the LORD, will I be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people.
2 Thus saith the LORD, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest.
3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Ok Frank,

Then you tell me who God is? You guess, estimate, think, feel, believe, imagine, whatever, that it's not the God of the Bible. So, who is it?

I do not know if there is a God, MA.

Have you been reading what I've been writing...or what?????

I am an agnostic.

I do not know if there is a God .... I do not know if there are no gods...

....and I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction.

I do, however, think there is plenty of evidence upon which to base a guess that the Bible, when dealing with the nature of the Ultimate REALITY...(the theology of the Bible)....is absolute bullshyt.

That is my guess.

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If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

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