If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

Frank Apisa wrote:

But we have already shown that the supposed "sin" of Adam was nonsense.

You have not shown anything, Frank. You have claimed.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Your god refused to let Adam know what was right and wrong...what was good and evil....

Really, Frank, You have a conscience, right? We all have, except sociopaths, I guess. Does your conscience sometimes tell you something would be wrong before you do it? It works that way for many people. And, does your conscience bother you if you do something wrong? It does for many people.

So, if you had a perfect conscience, you would not have to be told it was wrong to steal or cause harm to someone, you would automatically know, right?

Now, I don't know about you Frank, but if my best friend had just offered to let me stay in his home rent free so long as I didn't eat from one of his fruit trees, I would opine the tree must be important to him and would stay clear of it. Adam and Eve were given perfect consciences (If you believe the bible, that is.) They were given only one command, one rule they would be capable of breaking. Not 10 commandments; Not the many pages of Mosaic law; just one command.

And you are telling me it is certain the test was unfair? That's a real stretch, Frank.

Frank Apisa wrote:

...and then punished him for doing something that he (Adam) had no way of knowing was wrong.

Oh, there you go; you did stretch. Adam and Eve were smarter than you or me Frank. They were even smarter than Setanta. You haven't proved anything; you made an assumption unsupported by evidence and used it to justify your conclusion.

Frank Apisa wrote:

The allegory is absurd...laughably absurd.

Argumentum ad lapidem, Frank.

Frank Apisa wrote:

That an adult would buy into it is pitiful.

Argumentum ad hominem! Good job.

Keep up the good work!

As usual, Frank, your patience astounds me. These people haven't been brainwashed by the Lord but by the very flesh-and-blood clerics who preach to them and claim to have messages from God (even Dubya). They aren't passing on anything but religious dogma filtered through a constrictive thought process which renders everything in black-and-white. Wake up -- life is in color, wide-screen and even 3-D. The flat, uninquisitive nature of being completely convinced in especially the Old Testament is now antique, passe and dangerous. They will grasp onto the past as long as they can because it is gradually slipping away into oblivion.

If there's one thing one does learn from history is that they don't learn from history.

The writers of the Constitution expected it to last maybe 50 years in the state that they wrote it and although it's been amended, several of those amendments are cuckoo. If you read the Federalist Papers and many other writings by the founders, you'll find that they expected it to be drastically changed. They were aware and afraid that the rabble would take over and drop the ball.

Where did you get I stated the Old Testament is passe purely because it is old? It's also unsubstiated (sic) by-and-large by bonefide (sic) written history and many scientific studies as to claims of miracles, et al. (sic)

BTW, never volunteer for anything on a forum, or did everyone else step backwards?

I have no problem with those who agree with Frank. I like Frank. But I am amazed by the credulity of those who believe he has logically made his point.

I'm amazed at your credulity that your argument is logical, neo.

neologist has a terminal case of logistic intellectual meltdown.

Lightwizard wrote:

neologist has a terminal case of logistic intellectual meltdown.

Argumentum ad lapidum ad nauseum.

SNOORRRE!

Oh, you admit the dogma that Christians spout out of their collective mouths? You're trying to argue your point by characterizing me as a stoic declarer of the truth. I don't claim to have the truth as you do with your naivete. Get thee to a Yahoo nunnery. Spell check used on quote for comprehensibility

Well, it is clear to me you just wish to continue the argument and not the discussion.

I have already stated that even within the Christian faith there are differing points of belief but the main belief is the same. Now, play nice!

This is what God is to me!

Ten Guidelines From God:

Effective Immediately, please be aware that there are changes YOU need to make in YOUR life. These changes need to be completed in order that I may fulfill My promises to you to grant you peace, joy and happiness in this life. I apologize for any inconvenience, but after all that I am doing, this seems very little to ask of you. Please, follow these 10 guidelines

1. QUIT WORRYING: Life has dealt you a blow and all you do is sit and worry. Have you forgotten that I am here to take all your burdens and carry them for you? Or do you just enjoy fretting over every little
thing that comes your way?

2. PUT IT ON THE LIST: Something needs done or taken care of. Put it on the list. No, not YOUR list. Put it on MY to-do-list. Let ME be the one to take care of the problem. I can't help you until you turn it over to Me. And although My to-do-list is long, I am after all... God. I can take care of anything you put into My hands. In fact, if the truth were ever really known, I take care of a lot of things for you that you never even realize.

3. TRUST ME: Once you've given your burdens to Me, quit trying to take them back. Trust in Me. Have the faith that I will take care of all your needs, your problems and your trials. Problems with the kids? Put them on My list. Problem with finances? Put it on My list. Problems with your emotional roller coaster? For My sake, put it on My list. I want to
help you. All you have to do is ask.

4. LEAVE IT ALONE: Don't wake up one morning and say, "Well, I'm feeling much stronger now, I think I can handle it from here." Why do you think you are feeling stronger now? It's simple. You gave Me your burdens and I'm taking care of them. I also renew your strength and cover you in my peace. Don't you know that if I give you these problems back, you will be right back where you started? Leave them with Me and forget about them. Just let Me do my job.

5. TALK TO ME: I want you to forget a lot of things. Forget what was making you crazy. Forget the worry and the fretting because you know I'm in control. But there's one thing I pray you never forget. Please, don't
forget to talk to Me - OFTEN! I love YOU! I want to hear your voice. I want you to include Me in on the things going on in your life. I want to hear you talk about your friends and family. Prayer is simply you having
a conversation with Me. I want to be your dearest friend.

6. HAVE FAITH: I see a lot of things from up here that you can't see from where you are. Have faith in Me that I know what I'm doing. Trust Me;
you wouldn't want the view from My eyes. I will continue to care for you, watch over you, and meet your needs. You only have to trust Me.
Although I have a much bigger task than you, it seems as if you have so much trouble just doing your simple part. How hard can trust be?

7. SHARE: You were taught to share when you were only two years old. When did you forget? That rule still applies. Share with those who are
less fortunate than you. Share your joy with those who need encouragement. Share your laughter with those who haven't heard any in
such a long time. Share your tears with those who have forgotten how to cry. Share your faith with those who have none.

8. BE PATIENT:
I managed to fix it so in just one lifetime you could have so many diverse experiences. You grow from a child to an adult, have children, change jobs many times, learn many trades, travel to so many places, meet thousands of people, and experience so much. How can you be so impatient then when it takes Me a little longer than you expect to handle
something on My to-do-list? Trust in My timing, for My timing is perfect. Just because I created the entire universe in only six days, everyone thinks I should always rush, rush, rush.

9. BE KIND: Be kind to others, for I love them just as much as I love you. They may not dress like you, or talk like you, or live the same way
you do, but I still love you all. Please try to get along, for My sake. I created each of you different in some way. It would be too boring if you were all identical. Please, know I love each of your differences.

10. LOVE YOURSELF: As much as I love you, how can you not love yourself? You were created by me for one reason only -- to be loved, and to love in return. I am a God of Love. Love Me. Love your neighbors. But also love yourself. It makes My heart ache when I see you so angry with yourself when things go wrong. You are very precious to me.
Don't ever forget......

Touch someone with your love.
Rather than focus upon the thorns of life,
smell the roses and count your blessings

Now, what's so wrong with that?