If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

Death entered the world.

Amusing concept if you know anything much about biology.

Not nearly as amusing as the myth of the immortal soul.

I don't really get that joke.

I just find the idea of the convoluted changes that would be required to occur to the laws of physics and the biology of every species on earth to "create death" amusing.

Either that or the human race was originally designed with the bodies we have now and it was supernatural interference by God, (simultaneously manipulating the chemical processes of ever cell in our bodies), restraining death. Which suggests a certain level of premeditation.

I just find imagining the degree to which someone would have to twist science and their brain into knots to make it make sense particularly amusing. Then again I've always had a dark sense of humour.

Gosh, I bet none of us dumb creationists have any idea about biology.

why is there a hell? How the hell should I know. Perhaps it had to exist as a place for people to go who would not let Jesus forgive them.

more appropriate is why anybody spends anytime discussing such things.

How many angels dance on the head of a pin is more relevant

If you don't want to discuss the topic...then you can leave.

At this point the basic difference between you and I is you do not believe the soul is immortal and I do.

Nothing in NDE tells us that the Light, an entity of pure love, kills any soul.

Humans kill. Humans use death and the threat of death as a means to instill fear. They use that fear to control and dominate other humans.

They use this fear in their religion. They will either physically kill (the Inquisition) or spiritually kill (god will kill your soul). Anything to make others be subordinate to them.

Whenever I hear of any god in any religion using death as a threat to make humans believe in them I know that this a is a false, man made god.

The Light does not need to be believed in. It does not need praise. It does not need to use death as a means to make humans believe in it. The Light is not a human and does not have human characteristics. You can't humanize God.

By saying that God kills if you don't do this or that you demean God and bring God down to the lowest levels of human depravity.

Kill someone because of their religious belief? Kill someone because they didn't go to church on the right day or didn't follow some special rules?

If we condemn humans for this behavior than why do we praise God for it?

I believe in the immorality of the soul because NDE tells us so. NDE is the best non-religious evidence there is that a God exists.

Most people today consider it inhumane to kill someone because of their religious belief or non-belief. If God has to kill or torture souls because of their religious beliefs then God is dead. You have destroyed God and turned God into a human; a very bad human at that.

That's what the Bible does.

Hosea 14:1 KJV for example.

Why would God create us, and then not even care what we do?

Who says there is a God...

...and for those who guess there is a God...

...why would you suggest there are things that God would not do?

Well, after you come to the conclusion there is a God, it seems logical that the things created have a purpose.

Wow, this is a busy thread.


Watch;
Outside of the context of the bible, the idea that man was created to live forever must certainly seem absurd. I submit that the Bible is God's word and his purpose is for mankind to enjoy life on earth forever. So my question for you is: are you challenging on the basis of the Bible, or on the basis of secular reasoning? I have discovered convincing arguments for both postures. Just let me know where to start.


Xing;
You have many points where I would agree. But I have to ask: What about NDE cannot be explained by the phenomenon of endorphin release?
If the ND Experience is the true end of humanity, why bother having an earthly life? And what is so bad about an earthly life? Even the most religious among us will do almost anything to hang on to it.

If you had a clear understanding of even the first few chapters of Genesis you would see God's purpose is for man to live forever; you would see it was Satan who told Eve she would not die; and you would learn that God right then and there promised a resolution to the dilemma presented by Adam and Eve's rebellion. Power hungry clergy have obfuscated the truths of the Bible to the point that many blame God for society's ills. When a baby dies, they claim that "God wanted another angel." All of this poppycock has been invented to cover the most important issue in the universe: Does God have the right to set standards for mankind?



Frank; Frank; Frank; . . . The title of this thread is "If Jesus died to forgive us, why is there a Hell?" If you don't believe in God, you obviously don't believe in Hell; so we have some common ground there.
But if we stick to the Bible for a minute, consider the fact that it says He created us in His image. So it's natural for us to opine that God would not go against the qualities of love and justice he instilled in us. Abraham did just that before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Thunder;
Hang in there.

Not necessarily, Neo.

If there is a God...the God could certainly conduct Itself in any way It chooses.

It could be offended by goddam near everything humans do...and It could have delightful plans for people who kiss ass sufficiently for It's likings (apparently in Christianity, going to a place where it can continue to kiss ass for all the rest of eternity)...and It could have in story a punishment for those who don't kiss enough ass (apparently in Christianity, it is going to Hell and being tortured excruciatingly and relentlessly for all the rest of eternity.)

I have no problem with that....as I indicated in the posting you quoted.

I'm just wondering why anyone would claim to love a shythead like that?

If the God punishes lying...the're gonna be punished for lying that they love him. If they don't lie and say they love him, the're gonna be punished for not loving him.

What a revoltin' development this is.

I'm sticking with the Bible, Neo.

I've studied it extensively....and I know lots about it. I'm not off course.

We don't have to kiss his ass Frank, all we are required to do is love him back, period.

One...if you God is the god of the Bible...he doesn't love you...and he expects lots and lots of ass kissing.

Don't do plenty of it at your own peril, Thunder.

But I don't think that is a problem with you!

You do more than your fair share.

Oh he does care. NDEr's say we are put here for a purpose. Most times we don't know what the reason is. It's never the same reason for the everyone. It may be to raise a family, compose music, to give or to learn something. You can't take one simple reason and apply it to all humans.

You will notice that the one rule that is found around the world and in all ages is the Golden Rule.

http://www.homeworship101.com/golden_rule.htm

How to treat other human beings, that's what is important; not believe in me or you die.

As for rules? Religious books and their rules are written by humans and given god's signature to give it authority.
"God's rules" changes with time and religion.

Here's a test of your Bible knowledge. Remember, for you believers, these are "God's rules" and "God's commands".

http://worldzone.net/family/johnanderson/indexzfive.shtml

neologist

Endorphin release has nothing to do with NDE.

Who said NDE is the end of humanity? Most all religions, even the earliest Christians, believe in reincarnation. NDEr's say we will continue to return until we have learned what we need to and then move on to a higher plane. What do we need to learn. Beats me. I guess I'll be returning.

The mistake about eternal life is Christians seem to think life is only what is here on Earth. Life is our soul. What happens here is a tiny speck of time in the eternal life of our soul. By the way, NDEr's say in the Light's dimension there is no time. Time is something that is found in our world.

There are no clocks, no churches and no national boundaries in the Light's dimension.

And, no, I can't give you any rules of physics to explain that.

God does not set standards for mankind. As I said before, the closest universal rule I know of is the Golden Rule.

God created us in His image. What about our qualities of love, justice and wisdom? Are we saying God is lacking in the qualities He gave us?

The politicians and religious leaders will have their just deserts. Armageddon is not a war between nations, it is a war between the nations and God. One of its features will be the destruction of God-dishonoring religion (Babylon the Great)

The God of the Bible is seriously lacking the qualities of love, justice and wisdom. Not so the Light. There is a big difference between the two.



The idea that people will get their "just deserts" and God will kill all who don't believe properly is a symptom of human hate and anger. They can't kill them themselves so they assign the odious task to God. To them God is perfect in every way so God may kill, destroy and torture at will; for whatever reason.

But we set higher standards for ourselves. Why? Why do we condemn ourselves for the very things we wish God to do?

Xing; It is not God who lacks the characteristics of love and justice. It is the religious leaders and politicians who have hijacked His word. But perhaps 'just deserts' is too strong a statement. They will however be called to account for their oppression of humankind.

Think about it:
A child dies. The preacher says "God needed a new angel in heaven." What a crock
The politicians decide we need a war. The preachers kiss up to them and deliver their young men (and women) to the god of war.

And you say they are not deserving of anything? Well, I'm not deserving of anything either. But I do have a reason to hope.

Xingu didn't say it is God who was lacking anything. He specifically said "The god of the Bible...."

The best guess that can be made about that pathetic cartoon god is that it bears as much resemblance to any real GOD that might actually exist...as does Pan or Thor.





Do you know for a fact there is a God?

If not...perhaps the only thing being hijacked are the words of superstitious ancient people.