If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

Frank,

Is there no end to the lengths you will go to blame God? Take some responsibility, Frank. You have the free will to choose. You can choose whichever way you want, but remember, as with any rule, if you choose incorrectly, you suffer the consequences.

It cannot be anymore basic than that.

Frank,

I wonder what you would have me tell a soldier fighting in Iraq? I should not be grateful that he is laying his life down for mine? I should not be grateful that he is willing to die in my place?

You only want to see what you want to see.

You still are trying to prove that God is murderous, barbaric, vindictive, etc., with a book you believe is all lies. You can't do it.

God loves you, Frank, whether you like it or not.

You cannot change that. The only thing you can change is whether you accept that love or not.

You are the one asserting you can PROVE that there is no biblical basis for Hell.

It is a stupid assertion on your part....and you have failed miserably.

In the meantime, I have given you three pages of material FROM THE BIBLE....

...that can be used as biblical basis for the notion of Hell.

Do you people ever think????

Must you be blindly obedient ALL THE TIME?

Egad....we here at A2K have been fortunate enough over the years to have theists who at least could present logical....if unpersuasive....arguments. You folks honestly cannot even come close to that.

Mesquite,

Let me ask you a question, when you were a child and you were being punished for breaking a rule, did you think the punishment was fair? How many times did you said, "I hate you!" to your parents when they punished you? Did you mean it? I would guess not. Did you thin that was all your parents were, mean and cruel? I would guess not.

It's not the part about you thinking God is murderous, vindictive, barbaric, or what have you that bothers me so. What bothers me is, just like when we were children being punished we did not see the error of our ways, we blamed the parents because they made the rules and we didn't like them. But, our parents had more than one side to them. And, I would venture to guess that you believed your parents loved your more than they didnt? They were more kind then harsh?

Now, how often did you believe your parents when they said, "I am not punishing you because I don't love you. I am punishing you because I DO love you?" Did you eventually come to understand this to be true?

Num 31:17 - Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

Num 31:18 - But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

We are involved in a war today. Would you say that Moses' words above should be of moral value to guide our actions today?

]I'm really sorry, Frank.

I forgot who I was talking to. Of course the word 'hell' appears in many bibles, some more than others. All I was trying to show was that the bible writers were not referring to a place of eternal punishment.

In so doing, I referred you to certain words often translated as 'hell'.

So, Frank. What did the Hebrews mean by the word 'sheol' and why did the Septuagint translators render it 'hades'?

Frank,

I wish there was a clearer, simpler, etc., way I could explain this to you.

If you think something is a lie, then you can't prove it the truth using what you already believe to be a lie.

If, YOU CAN[/i] do it with the God of the Old Testament, then YOU HAVE[/i] to be able to do it with the God of the New Testament.

Oh and Frank, you have no idea how grateful I am to our troops. You have no idea what I do for the troops and their families. But, let me tell you this, when you start hearing a Public Service Announcement about The Care Angels Network, With Love, From Home," know this Frank, I am the founder and director of these organizations. WE DO, I would venture a guess here at this, more than you have ever thought of doing for our troops.

We show our appreciation for their gift, JUST AS WE SHOW GOD OUR APPRECIATION FOR HIS GIFT.

Now, I can see by your postings that you are (IMO) becoming increasingly more angry, frustrated, whatever you want to call it. I have continually told you that I am just trying to have a discussion here. You keep spewing out your venomous remarks about what I believe just because you don't agree with me. Frank, don't agree with me. Fine. The seed has been planted and I cannot do more than that. But, I do not wish to engage in conversation with you if you continue to be verbally abusive.

If you can't show common courtesy, then just ignore me. So, I will not be answering your posts anymore unless you can change your tone. You are one of the very few that can't seem to show any respect at all for what someone else believes. I woud rather engage in discussion with those that actually ask questions because they want to know something, and not because they want to start or continue an argument.

Kisses,

Momma Angel

And, Frank, God may have sacrificed His Son, but you seem to totally ignore the fact that three days later, He Rose Him From the Dead! He is alive!

Neologist,

Oh, I am not going anywhere. It would take more than that to chase me off.

And, though true I do not know what is going on in Frank's life, I am not one that subscribes to that "somebody did wrong to me so I get to do wrong to others" type of attitude.

I am sure there IS something in Frank's life either now, or in the past, that has had this effect on him....

.... and I am deeply saddened by that.

But, I have tried and tried being nice to him and returning kindness to his insults. I also do not suscribe to the "let them be the way they are and you just accept it" attitude. If someone is rude, you tell them they are rude. If they continue, you don't. I'm not upset with Frank. I'm not angry at Frank. I feel sorry for Frank. He is one of God's children and deserves love and respect just like all God's children.

I, for one, am glad to have been born and will gladly accept any pain coming between me and the life promised.

mesquite wrote:

We are involved in a war today. Would you say that Moses' words above should be of moral value to guide our actions today?

No, the law was a tutor leading to Christ. Christ, contrary to Frank's cantankerous objection, fulfilled the law. The Hebrews' killing of their enemies, while harsh, was recorded to remind us of God's exacting standards.

Remember that these 'civilizations' being terminated were those who practised, among other things, the burning of children while alive.

I've asked this before: Are those who suffered painful deaths in the past any more dead than those who died peacefully in their sleep? Are they any less entitled to the resurrection promised by Jesus in John 5:28,29?

After they have lived for, let's say, 500 or so years, will they curse God for their suffering or thank him that they were given a chance to experience the life Adam lost?