If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

xingu wrote:

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It seems the more ignorant one is the more they succumb to fear.

True that is why the undeveloped nations areas are such prime areas for proselytizing.

But how can we explain the US. :wink: Question

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How do we explain ignorance?

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Ignorance can be the product of poverty, it can be a familial trait (an ignorant parent is unlikely to be in the position of recommending an antidote to the child), and it can also be willful. Many of the religiously fanatical do not want to learn more than is absolutely necessary--i.e., what they are obliged to learn in order to meet minimal academic standards of the place in which they live. This latter self-imposed ignorance serves the purpose of those who would exploit the religiously credulous; if one only reads the bobble, and one's preacher interprets it for the faithful flock, reading beyond that is inimical to those who wish to appear to have all the answers, and to control the flock.

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Setanta wrote:

Ignorance can . . . also be willful. if one only reads the bobble, and one's preacher interprets it for the faithful flock, reading beyond that is inimical to those who wish to appear to have all the answers, and to control the flock.

Total agreement. Except, if one actually reads the bible, he might quickly learn more than the preacher.

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That would require some discriminating perception and an open mind . . . care to give odds?

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Works for me - partly because I still am willing to learn.

Just remember, guys: Keep it simple. I have to be able to explain it to Joe Sixpack.

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The odds that someone will read the bible with an open mind and discriminating perception is very slim. I think it is similar to the ratio of people who try to find understanding in the bible, and people who are looking for errors.

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thunder_runner32 wrote:

The odds that someone will read the bible with an open mind and discriminating perception is very slim. I think it is similar to the ratio of people who try to find understanding in the bible, and people who are looking for errors.

Should we, therefore, as enlightened ministers, interpret the bible for them? What a fine opportunity for us. Why didn't someone think of this before?

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I think it is our obligation to help people find understanding in the Bible. We can help them interpret, and point out the problems in misinterpretation.

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It is our job to show them the bible. Many people due to their experiences, have different ways of interpreting the bible. We can help them to interpret it but we can't be the one's to say whether it is the right interpretation or not.

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But if we find error, then we should point it out.

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What error?

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Who are we to judge what God says? Wouldn't that make us better than God?

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In misunderstanding of the text...

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It is our job to show them the bible.

Funny, but one would think God would be intelligent enough to write a book that didn't need "special people" to interpret it.

Of course this interpretation business opens up a big can of worms. Now every Tom, Dick and Harry thinks they're an expert at interpretation of the Bible. They're telling everyone else that they're to stupid or ignorant to understand what they read. And everyone who has a different interpretation from their own are mistaken and will be sent to hell for not abiding by their dogma, which, of course, is based on the Bible.

Yes, you have to have specially trained people to tell you what your reading. That's the way God designed it, isn't it?

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Thunder wrote

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I think it is our obligation to help people find understanding in the Bible. We can help them interpret, and point out the problems in misinterpretation.

Typical arrogance of the religious. They are obligated to explain the bible to us poor ignorant unwashed. And of course their particular bible. Since it alone is the true bible. I hate to tell you what you can do with your bible.

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Ya, I was amused by that.

I recall reading about how the Catholic Church said that in the past. You get to God by only coming through us. We have the Bible and the Word. We will tell you what's it all about. TRUST US.

Now we have our friends telling us we can't understand what we read unless we go through them.

This is an example of controlling the input. If you can control the input you control the mind. That way you can keep them ignorant and fearful.

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Here's an example of what some of our conservative Christian friends are doing. All this hate comes from the Bible; that is the Bible as they interpret it.

http://www.boycottford.com/

This is an example of that can of worms I was telling you about.

Just think, with the CORRECT interpretation, I bet we could kill homosexuals and go to Heaven.

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xingu wrote:

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It is our job to show them the bible.

Funny, but one would think God would be intelligent enough to write a book that didn't need "special people" to interpret it.

On this we agree. I would add, however, that the bible is such a book. Knowing you as I believe I do, you will be slapping your forehead right now in disbelief. But consider this: For many years the church made it a crime to posess the bible in one's own language. May people risked death so they might have the bible in a form they could understand. Why was that? It was because the church fathers wanted to maintain control over the people by keeping them ignorant. Now that the bible is readily available, the obstacle has changed: it is a long read - it contains 'inconsistencies' etc. etc. - anything to prevent close examination.

xingu wrote:

Yes, you have to have specially trained people to tell you what your reading. That's the way God designed it, isn't it?

So yes, this is what the clergy would still have you believe. That's why I'm telling you the truth of the bible is much less complicated than you might expect. But, you do have to pay something in time to find out.

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Quote:

Typical arrogance of the religious. They are obligated to explain the bible to us poor ignorant unwashed. And of course their particular bible. Since it alone is the true bible. I hate to tell you what you can do with your bible.

Oh, I forgot, au1929 needs no help, he is never misguided and he always posesses the ultimate understanding of everything....yeah, my bad. You know what this sounds like, someone who wants so bad, for the bible to be untrue, that their argument is to call me brain washed and arrogant. As far as opinion in interpretation goes, I'm sorry, one cannot put their own predjucises and opinions into a book of morality.

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If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

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