80
   

If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

 
 
neologist
 
  1  
Mon 15 Feb, 2016 02:09 pm
@Glennn,
I wrote:
Yes. Are you saying that human sacrifice took place?
You wrote:
I asked you whether or not it is true that your god does not condone human sacrifice. You answered my question with a question. Why did you do that?
Mostly to underscore your inability to get the point. I apologise for that.
You wrote:
Then I asked you what your stand is on the idea that your god desired the killing and burning of corpses in exchange for something humans wanted or needed. I even paraphrased my question. I asked: What part of your god was pleased and quenched by the slaughter of animals, and the burning of their corpses. In response, you once again answered my question with a question, asking me where I had read that. Why are you doing that?
Where did you see the word 'quenched'?
You wrote:
Then when I ask you if the stench of burning flesh is a delicacy to your god, you did not answer.
Of course I answered. I have some burgers on the barby right now.
neologist
 
  1  
Mon 15 Feb, 2016 02:12 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
. . . the voice inside his head.
Your words. Not the Bible's.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Mon 15 Feb, 2016 02:16 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
Mostly to underscore your inability to get the point.

Well, this is all seeming to underscore you inability to make the point, or to answer in any meaningful way.
Quote:
Where did you see the word 'quenched'?

This is your failed attempt to avoid answering a question that would highlight your acceptance of a perverse description of your god.
Quote:
Of course I answered. I have some burgers on the barby right now.

Yet another failed attempt to avoid answering uncomfortable questions.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Mon 15 Feb, 2016 02:21 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
Where did you see the word 'quenched'?

And thou shalt burn the whole ram upon the altar: it is a burnt offering unto the LORD: it is a sweet savour, an offering made by fire unto the LORD.

Quenched sound about right?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 15 Feb, 2016 02:30 pm
@Glennn,
I don't think much about them, but my understanding of burnt offerings was that it was just a way of recognizing their absolute dependence on God for their very existence and demonstrating that belief. Remember that slaughtering animals was an everyday event since they couldn't pop over to the market and buy meat in nice packages.

In today's world there are many other ways to show that you understand your debt to God. No animals need be harmed in the process. PETA would approve.
Glennn
 
  1  
Mon 15 Feb, 2016 02:34 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
it was just a way of recognizing their absolute dependence on God for their very existence and demonstrating that belief.

Ah, so it had nothing to do with what the god wanted?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 15 Feb, 2016 02:47 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
Ah, so it had nothing to do with what the god wanted?
Of course it had something to do with what he wanted. The first commandment essentially means - to acknowledge reality.

All sin, at its core, is a failure to do that. The most basic fact of reality is that you owe your existence to God. He does want you to acknowledge that fact. Mainly you do that inside your mind, the details of the outward expression of that are unimportant but he wants that too.
Glennn
 
  1  
Mon 15 Feb, 2016 02:56 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
Mainly you do that inside your mind, the details of the outward expression of that are unimportant but he wants that too.

I hear what you're saying, but I don't think you do.

Anyway, bottom line is that the god was quenched by the death and burning of an animal.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 15 Feb, 2016 03:01 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
Anyway, bottom line is that the god was quenched by the death and burning of an animal.
I don't think God gave a **** about the animals. What he cared about was - what was in the mind of the man.
Glennn
 
  1  
Mon 15 Feb, 2016 04:44 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
I don't think God gave a **** about the animals.

Yes he did. They were its burnt offering sacrifice of choice.
Quote:
What he cared about was - what was in the mind of the man.

But I thought the god knows what's in your heart and mind. So, what is the point in killing and burning an animal to prove your love for the god?

Quote:
The most basic fact of reality is that you owe your existence to God. He does want you to acknowledge that fact. Mainly you do that inside your mind, the details of the outward expression of that are unimportant but he wants that too.


The reality is that you've been informed that, according to a book, you owe your existence to a god, and that, like all egos, he wants you to acknowledge that fact. Of course, this flies in the face of the the alleged fact that the god knows your heart and mind already. So . . .
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 15 Feb, 2016 06:06 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
The reality is that you've been informed that, according to a book, you owe your existence to a god, and that, like all egos, he wants you to acknowledge that fact. Of course, this flies in the face of the the alleged fact that the god knows your heart and mind already. So . . .
Lets see if I have that right. Your wife or GF knows you love her, but since she knows that already you never have to make any outward expression of that love? And if she wants that expression anyway, she's an egotistical bitch?

Have you never sacrificed a bit of your treasure for your loved one?
Glennn
 
  2  
Mon 15 Feb, 2016 07:29 pm
@Leadfoot,
You said that we owe our existence to the god, and that it wants us to acknowledge that fact, and that it wants outward expressions of our gratitude. You're trying to justify the god's perverse appreciation for the burning of slaughtered animals by somehow equating that to me telling my wife that I appreciate her presence in my life, and then maybe making love to her. That is a ridiculous comparison.

She never asks me to sacrifice the family pet or the wild rabbits in our yard to prove my gratitude. And if she did, I would question her sanity. Our expressions of gratitude for each other never involve the senseless taking of life.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Mon 15 Feb, 2016 08:33 pm
@Glennn,
That any god would have to make demands to be followed doesn't compute. Sounds more like a tyrant than a god.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 15 Feb, 2016 08:41 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
@Leadfoot,
You said that we owe our existence to the god, and that it wants us to acknowledge that fact, and that it wants outward expressions of our gratitude. You're trying to justify the god's perverse appreciation for the burning of slaughtered animals by somehow equating that to me telling my wife that I appreciate her presence in my life, and then maybe making love to her. That is a ridiculous comparison.
What makes that rediculous?

Quote:
She never asks me to sacrifice the family pet or the wild rabbits in our yard to prove my gratitude. And if she did, I would question her sanity. Our expressions of gratitude for each other never involve the senseless taking of life.
But I would guess that she appreciates being taken out to dinner, buying her precious stones and gold trinkets, flowers and cards, vacations in nice places, etc?

Animals were the equivalent of money in those days, they were a man's treasure. I fail to see what is so rediculous in my comparison.
Glennn
 
  1  
Mon 15 Feb, 2016 09:04 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Agreed!
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Mon 15 Feb, 2016 09:09 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
Animals were the equivalent of money in those days, they were a man's treasure. I fail to see what is so rediculous in my comparison.

Are you trying to tell me that the god is short of cash, and that its currency of choice is burning flesh?

I am stunned that you cannot see the difference between showing a loved one your appreciation through kindly acts, and showing your god your appreciation through the killing of animals and the burning of their corpses. Because of your investment in the deified book, you have come to believe that the god's system is basically no different than the practice of voodoo.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Mon 15 Feb, 2016 09:11 pm
@Glennn,
Shekels my good man.
Glennn
 
  1  
Mon 15 Feb, 2016 09:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yes, I guess it would be shekels. Smile
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 15 Feb, 2016 09:20 pm
@Glennn,
Have you ever visited Israel? I've been there twice, and enjoyed both visits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_new_shekel
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 08:53 am
@Glennn,
Quote:

Leadfoot Quote:
"Animals were the equivalent of money in those days, they were a man's treasure. I fail to see what is so rediculous in my comparison."


Are you trying to tell me that the god is short of cash, and that its currency of choice is burning flesh?
I assume at this point you are just playing endless word games. You keep insisting that the value to God is the animal (which is an odd thing for someone who doesn't believe in a God) and I (who actually do believe in him) keep repeating that what he values is in the intent and mind of the man.

Quote:
I am stunned that you cannot see the difference between showing a loved one your appreciation through kindly acts, and showing your god your appreciation through the killing of animals and the burning of their corpses.
Its really very simple. Abraham, etc, showed their loved one (God) their appreciation by sacrificing some of their treasure to him as well as other ways.

You show your appreciation for your loved one in exactly the same way. You are stunned only because you cannot conceive of loving God, (and how could you if you don't believe in him?)

Quote:
Because of your investment in the deified book, you have come to believe that the god's system is basically no different than the practice of voodoo.
Actually, I arrived at my beliefs about 15 years before picking up a bible. I was as surprised as anyone that it supported them.

I don't know much about voodoo but I doubt it has much in common. I do feel a strange urge to own a Mustang with the new 'Voodoo' V8 though.
 

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