If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

@Leadfoot,

No, reading and interpretation are two different things.

http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2014/04/21/303375159/americas-less-religious-study-puts-some-blame-on-the-internet

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@Leadfoot,

Quote:

Again, as I thought. You are unable to run the mental experiment. You have relegated God to 'a voice in Abraham's head'.

If you are referring to the god that is soothed by the smoke from the corpses of dead animals, then yes, that was all in Abraham's head, and yours as well. Tell me true, do you believe that the god was pleased and quenched by the slaughter of animals and the burning of their corpses?

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Isn't it true that the god did not condone child sacrifice? If that is true, then the test for Abraham was to recognize that the voice in his head was not that of the god, but of something contrary to the god.

However, I do agree that reading and comprehension are two different things.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Noted.
Were Moses or any of the patriarchs who lived between the time of Abraham and Exodus offended by the story, it would have been redacted. Apparently they understood the account from a different perspective.

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@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

Isn't it true that the god did not condone child sacrifice?

Did you miss the point about Isaac's age?

Glennn wrote:

If that is true, then the test for Abraham was to recognize that the voice in his head was not that of the god, but of something contrary to the god.

However, I do agree that reading and comprehension are two different things.

Hmm!

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@neologist,

Quote:

Did you miss the point about Isaac's age?

I'm sorry, let me rephrase that. Isn't it true that the god did not condone human sacrifice?

And while I've got you on the horn, what is your stand on the idea that your god desired the killing and burning of corpses in exchange for something humans wanted or needed? How's your comprehension when it comes to interpreting this desire of your god?

Was the stench of burning flesh a delicacy to your god?

Hmm . . .

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@Caesar,

Times were really bad before and during Jesus times. I suppose he died for all the sins of humanity up to his death. Maybe it's time for another martyr to die for all the sins of humanity since then. Who is it going to be? Maybe we have already have a hell going on in this world, with all the sufferings and killings going on. How much worse can it be for the victims?

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@neologist,

Quote:

Were Moses or any of the patriarchs who lived between the time of Abraham and Exodus offended by the story, it would have been redacted.

Well, sure, if it's good enough for Moses, then it's good enough for you. But just out of curiosity, did Moses and Abraham ever meet? I'm thinking that they didn't. I'm also thinking that Moses wasn't offended by much when it came to the taking of life.

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@Glennn,

Quote:

I'm also thinking that Moses wasn't offended by much when it came to the taking of life

I know that 'conventionally', taking a life is the ultimate injustice. But if you are serious about doing the mental experiment, God and presumably people like Moses and Abraham were primarily focused on the life to come, not this temporary existence on earth. If you think life after death is a myth, then it's all just silly and gruesome stories. I don't know why you would even bother reading threads about this stuff.

But I am curious. Why do you?

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@Leadfoot,

We enjoy how people rationalize the unrational.

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@Glennn,

I wrote:

Did you miss the point about Isaac's age?

Glennn wrote:

I'm sorry, let me rephrase that. Isn't it true that the god did not condone human sacrifice?

Yes. Are you saying that human sacrifice took place?

Glennn wrote:

And while I've got you on the horn, what is your stand on the idea that your god desired the killing and burning of corpses in exchange for something humans wanted or needed?

Where did you read that?

Glennn wrote:

. . . Was the stench of burning flesh a delicacy to your god?

I enjoy a barbecue. How about you?

Glennn wrote:

Hmm . . .

For sure.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

We enjoy how people rationalize the unrational.

Yeah, I get that. There are a couple of websites I follow just to observe how far people can go in that. It's like watching a train wreak, you can't look away.

But to actually participate in the dialog or try to correct their misconceptions would be counter productive. It would make me feel like a little kid stirring up an anthill to watch the chaos or pulling the wings off flies. Is that it?

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@Glennn,

I wrote:

Were Moses or any of the patriarchs who lived between the time of Abraham and Exodus offended by the story, it would have been redacted.

Glennn wrote:

Well, sure, if it's good enough for Moses, then it's good enough for you. But just out of curiosity, did Moses and Abraham ever meet? I'm thinking that they didn't. I'm also thinking that Moses wasn't offended by much when it came to the taking of life.

And, of course your thinking is spot on

But to Moses, the "deus ex machina" was not unexpected. He claimed to have witnessed the deliverance of the Jews, an event which included the entire nation trapped between Pharaoh's army and the Red Sea, an 'impossible' situation. Abraham's ordeal was completely in line with his understanding of faith.

Apparently you don't share Moses' viewpoint.

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@Leadfoot,

Quote:

I know that 'conventionally', taking a life is the ultimate injustice. But if you are serious about doing the mental experiment, God and presumably people like Moses and Abraham were primarily focused on the life to come, not this temporary existence on earth.

Regardless of what you or anyone else choose to focus on, murder is exactly what it looks like.

Quote:

If you think life after death is a myth, then it's all just silly and gruesome stories.

I'm sorry, but even if life after death is not a myth, then it's all still just silly, gruesome stories.

Quote:

I don't know why you would even bother reading threads about this stuff. But I am curious. Why do you?

The hearts and minds of the young who might come away from threads like this with the idea that a great being of love was soothed by the smoke from animal corpses and other such distasteful ideas concerning what you have no way of knowing, save from a book you've read.

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@neologist,

Quote:

Yes. Are you saying that human sacrifice took place?

I asked you whether or not it is true that your god does not condone human sacrifice. You answered my question with a question. Why did you do that?

Then I asked you what your stand is on the idea that your god desired the killing and burning of corpses in exchange for something humans wanted or needed. I even paraphrased my question. I asked: What part of your god was pleased and quenched by the slaughter of animals, and the burning of their corpses. In response, you once again answered my question with a question, asking me where I had read that. Why are you doing that?

Then when I ask you if the stench of burning flesh is a delicacy to your god, you did not answer.

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@Glennn,

Ah, so no personal interest, just saving the young from the horrors of the God myth. Thank you for a straight forward answer.

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@neologist,

Quote:

But to Moses, the "deus ex machina" was not unexpected. He claimed to have witnessed the deliverance of the Jews, an event which included the entire nation trapped between Pharaoh's army and the Red Sea, an 'impossible' situation. Abraham's ordeal was completely in line with his understanding of faith.

This does not address the immorality of Abraham's willingness to murder his son and offer the burnt corpse as a sacrifice to the voice inside his head.

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@Leadfoot,

Quote:

just saving the young from the horrors of the God myth.

I'm not saving anyone. Anyone is free to peruse this thread and weigh up the points for themselves. And if by ". . . the horrors of the God myth" you mean the story being pushed that the god was fond of the slaughter of animals and the burning of the corpses--that it was pleased and somehow quenched by such a thing--then yeah, I'll contend that point. Why wouldn't I?

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@Glennn,

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Why wouldn't I?

I completely understand. From your perspective it's the only thing to do.

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@Leadfoot,

Quote:

From your perspective it's the only thing to do.

From what perspective have you come to view the slaughter of animals and the burning of their corpses as a thing that pleases and quenches your god?

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If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

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