80
   

If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

 
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2015 02:15 am
@neologist,
Quote:

Not at all. "The meek shall inherit the earth . . . " - Psalm 37:11. I am hoping to be among them.

No surprise there. As you wish.

Quote:

If heaven was so great, why would so many angels forsake their relationship with God for a few years on earth?


Now THAT is a new wrinkle ! Are you just having fun with me or is that really a part of your theology?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2015 08:34 am
@Leadfoot,
I say that to anyone thinking they may be among those who go to heaven. Rarely have they thought it through. - Revelation 5:10
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2015 08:36 am
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2015 09:40 am
@neologist,
Quote:

I say that to anyone thinking they may be among those who go to heaven. Rarely have they thought it through. - Revelation 5:10

That takes place after Christ returns but before the final judgement, Armageddon and the new heaven and earth. It is during the 1000 year reign.

I don't really know the particulars of just what the new earth means or is but since it will be the dwelling place of God, there is no distinction between it and what we currently think of as the dwelling place of God - heaven. If the dwelling place of God after the final judgement is called 'new earth', I'll gladly accept it as my home.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2015 12:04 pm
@Leadfoot,
God was with Adam and Eve until they sinned. Genesis 3:8 recounts his "walking through the garden".

Once the earth has been cleansed and restored, (new earth) he will continue to do so.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2015 12:44 pm
@neologist,
So what do you make of the 1000 year reign, or is that part of your beliefs? If so, what purpose does it serve?
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2015 12:55 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

I'd say they were outsmarted.

Oh, not kidnapped, outsmarted.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2015 01:10 pm
@InfraBlue,
Well, yeah.
Apparently, humans are easily outsmarted.
Haven't you noticed?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2015 01:22 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:
So what do you make of the 1000 year reign, or is that part of your beliefs? If so, what purpose does it serve?
This will take a while:
Quote:
Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment. (John 5:28,29)
Unrighteous ones, particularly, should require time to learn and adjust.

Additionally, there will be considerable environmental cleanup.

Then, no doubt, a period of time for true peace and security.

And then some time for a final test.
Quote:
Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Ma′gog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they advanced over the whole earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and consumed them. (Revelation 20:7-9)
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2015 02:13 pm
@neologist,
Leadfoot wrote:
"So what do you make of the 1000 year reign, or is that part of your beliefs? If so, what purpose does it serve?"

Neo replied:
Quote:

Quote:
"Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment. (John 5:28,29)"

Unrighteous ones, particularly, should require time to learn and adjust.


Jesus was including BOTH resurections there. I was speaking of the first resurection where only the righteous are raised so your explaination for the unrighteous does not add up.
Quote:

Additionally, there will be considerable environmental cleanup.

What? You think God who created the universe with a word would need 1000 years to clean up earth? Besides, why clean up the old earth when it will pass away as soon as that time is up?
Quote:

Then, no doubt, a period of time for true peace and security.
And then some time for a final test.

Quote:
Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Ma′gog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they advanced over the whole earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and consumed them. (Revelation 20:7-9)

I don't dispute that part, but why do you suppose that many righteous people who have lived with Christ for 1000 years on a cleaned up earth with Satan locked away would suddenly join Satan in rebellion when he is released?
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2015 03:18 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Well, yeah.
Apparently, humans are easily outsmarted.
Haven't you noticed?

Ok.
0 Replies
 
Johnjohnjohn
 
  0  
Reply Sat 17 Oct, 2015 04:24 pm
@neologist,
God will destroy this sinful planet. There will be a new earth in which we will dwell. The Angels rebelled because they were tricked into thinking heaven was rightfully theirs and that satan is god.

At the end of satans little season of deceit , ALL will be judged.
0 Replies
 
Johnjohnjohn
 
  0  
Reply Sat 17 Oct, 2015 04:30 pm
@Leadfoot,
God doesn't need 1,000 years.


Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

We will dwell on it.


Also, that is why God tells us to be vigilant and sober minded. Satan is that good at deceiving. Good enough that at the end of his season, all will need to be judged.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Oct, 2015 04:44 pm
@Johnjohnjohn,
Quote:
Also, that is why God tells us to be vigilant and sober minded. Satan is that good at deceiving. Good enough that at the end of his season, all will need to be judged.]
You may have missed the time context of the period i was speaking about. I was talking about the time immediately AFTER the 1000 years during which Satan was imprisioned and was NOT free to deceive. The people on earth had that many years to learn directly from Christ what was up. What I wanted to know was why after all that time with Christ and NO Satan did many join Satan as soon as he was released. Yes, he is good at deceiving but there has to be some explaination why he was able to so easily deceive people after they had that long to learn the truth.
Johnjohnjohn
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 17 Oct, 2015 05:38 pm
@Leadfoot,
Good question. I guess we'll have to ask Christ in the 1000 years Very Happy
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Oct, 2015 05:59 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:
. . . You may have missed the time context of the period i was speaking about. I was talking about the time immediately AFTER the 1000 years during which Satan was imprisioned and was NOT free to deceive. The people on earth had that many years to learn directly from Christ what was up. What I wanted to know was why after all that time with Christ and NO Satan did many join Satan as soon as he was released. Yes, he is good at deceiving but there has to be some explaination why he was able to so easily deceive people after they had that long to learn the truth.
For 1000s of years the issue has centered around God's right to set standards for humans in regard to such things as sexual behavior, treatment of others, etc. Would it be reasonable to expect that, at some time in our perfect future, the issue will be raised for a final judgement, perhaps in the form of nationalism - God's kingdom vs. Satan's "freedom"?

Just a guess, don't hold me to it.
Johnjohnjohn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 21 Oct, 2015 06:46 pm
@neologist,
Nah. God knows the rights and wrongs and doesn't change.

Malachi 3:6
Quote:
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 21 Oct, 2015 08:03 pm
Ah. I posted this in the wrong thread earlier:

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/12119072_1210692795612836_3177630196747950770_n.jpg
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Oct, 2015 10:37 pm
@FBM,
So you're a do-it-yourselfer.
Interesting. . . . . . .
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Oct, 2015 10:42 pm
@neologist,
Everybody needs a hobby. Wink
0 Replies
 
 

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