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If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

 
 
neologist
 
  2  
Fri 18 Sep, 2015 03:13 pm
@InfraBlue,
And it should not be considered a place?
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Fri 18 Sep, 2015 10:14 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

And it should not be considered a place?

Not in this context because not everyone that dies goes to the grave. Some are cremated. Some die without being buried or cremated. You argue that it's a figurative statement, but there are the other direct translations that I've already mentioned for the word that obviate your take on it.
neologist
 
  2  
Sat 19 Sep, 2015 12:33 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
. .. because not everyone that dies goes to the grave. Some are cremated. . .
Ever store your data in the cloud, Blue? Where is it? Those who have died are in God's memory. We call it a place because it makes sense. Well, to me, anyway.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Sat 19 Sep, 2015 08:40 pm
@neologist,
I already covered your figurative approach.
neologist
 
  2  
Sat 19 Sep, 2015 11:46 pm
@InfraBlue,
Good for you
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Sun 20 Sep, 2015 12:09 am
@neologist,
Thank you very much.
0 Replies
 
Squeakybro
 
  0  
Sun 20 Sep, 2015 09:11 pm
@Caesar,
ALL ALLMOST NEVER MEANS ALL (IN THE CARNAL SENSE)
Matt 5:14-16
14 "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
15 "Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
16 "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
Matt 6:33-34
33 "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
34 "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
John 5:36
36 "But I have a greater witness than John's; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish-- the very works that I do-- bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.
John 6:39
39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John 18:11
11 Then Jesus said to Peter, "Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?"
Heb 2:13
13 And again: "I will put My trust in Him." And again: "Here am I and the children whom God has given Me."
John 6:44-48
44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 "It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.
46 "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
47 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
48 "I am the bread of life.
John 6:65-69
65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.
67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also want to go away?"
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
69 "Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
John 17:1-2
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
John 17:6-7
6 "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
7 "Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.
John 17:10-12
10 "And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
(NKJ)

XXX All is a figure of speech. We can see that to Jesus all was all those that God had given Him. Which is all those who become Christians and are born again. All those that follow Jesus' example.

Mark 10:45
45 "For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
John 17:12
12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
John 13:1
1 Now before the feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that His hour had come that He should depart from this world to the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end.
1Thes 3:11-13
11 Now may our God and Father Himself, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way to you.
12 And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we do to you,
13 so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.
Acts 2:39
39 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
John 6:37-40
37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
40 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
(NKJ)
FBM
 
  1  
Mon 21 Sep, 2015 12:09 am
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/12039330_893783457364752_5046305481907861354_n.jpg
izzythepush
 
  1  
Mon 21 Sep, 2015 01:34 am
@Squeakybro,
So much for only posting on your own threads.
0 Replies
 
KoreanGodBeliever
 
  0  
Wed 23 Sep, 2015 12:36 am
@Caesar,
Hell was created when Lucifer, once God's most decorated angel, decided he can overpower God. Lucifer was cast out of heaven thus the creation of hell. God is one entity described by 3. God, Holy spirit, and Jesus. Jesus, God in human form, has witnessed all the crimes committed by humans up to Jesus's death. His death was to wash away all of our sins regardless of fault at the time, and God gave us all a clean slate by starting with no sins prior to our birth. Because of Adam we were born in sin. When Jesus died, all of our sins has been forgiven. God gave his son so we will be clean of sin. Meaning God loves us and wants us to be pure and clean and holy so that we may go to Heaven. But if you sin, you won't go directly to hell. You'll meet the devil and he will take you there.
FBM
 
  0  
Wed 23 Sep, 2015 12:43 am
@KoreanGodBeliever,
어떻게 그런 예날 신화가 실재로 오해하나요? 증거가 없어서...이상하나요.
0 Replies
 
KoreanGodBeliever
 
  1  
Sun 27 Sep, 2015 01:48 am
@FBM,
Do you understand God? God gave us free will. He will not care at the moment if you decide to commit a sin. He will allow you to live your life as free as you want.
Only at the gates of Heaven will he judge you. This isn't what I'm preaching, just information from millions of believers in this world. What you choose to do with the information is upon you and you alone. Listen to your own advise hypocrite.
FBM
 
  1  
Sun 27 Sep, 2015 01:58 am
@KoreanGodBeliever,
KoreanGodBeliever wrote:

Do you understand God? God gave us free will. He will not care at the moment if you decide to commit a sin. He will allow you to live your life as free as you want.


If you want to convince me of something, show me some evidence.

Quote:
Only at the gates of Heaven will he judge you. This isn't what I'm preaching, just information from millions of believers in this world. What you choose to do with the information is upon you and you alone. Listen to your own advise hypocrite.


"advice." How am I being a hypocrite? Do you know the meaning of the word?
0 Replies
 
Gwyneth Elms
 
  1  
Wed 30 Sep, 2015 12:03 pm
There is a hell because God is a holy God who cannot tolerate sin and where people choose to go by rejecting Jesus Christ's offer of salvation. God sent his son Jesus to die on the cross in order to take the punishment for our sin. It's only as we personally acknowledge Jesus as our Saviour that we receive salvation and we begin to experience a whole new life as a child of God where we know that our sin is forgiven and we will have a place in heaven when we die - however God gave each of us free will so we choose!
Gwyneth Elms
 
  1  
Wed 30 Sep, 2015 12:17 pm
@KoreanGodBeliever,
I believe God loves us very much and does greatly care if we sin - while we are alive we have opportunity to come to him and be forgiven and he will give us a new life - that is what being born again means - we can start our life all over again with our past forgiven and now we can be reconciled to God because of what Jesus has done - God loves you more than you could ever imagine and he has a perfect plan for your life which will start to be fulfilled when you come to him
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 30 Sep, 2015 01:17 pm
@Gwyneth Elms,
"Sin" pretty much is a human doing something that offends your god.

Why doesn't your god simply stop being offended by so much that we do...by damn near everything we do except for kissing
its ass?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Wed 30 Sep, 2015 03:06 pm
@Gwyneth Elms,
Gwyneth Elms wrote:
There is a hell because God is a holy God who cannot tolerate sin . ...
There is no eternal punishment because God is a merciful God who would never assign infinite punishment for finite sin.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Wed 30 Sep, 2015 03:47 pm
@neologist,
So, a death sentence is temporary?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 30 Sep, 2015 03:50 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

So, a death sentence is temporary?


Ouch! Wink
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Wed 30 Sep, 2015 05:59 pm
@Gwyneth Elms,
Quote:
There is a hell because God is a holy God who cannot tolerate sin
Do you really believe a God capable of bringing the entire universe and us into existence would have such delicate sensibilities that he would be deeply affected by wrong acts we humans could do? That puts an entirely wrong spin on the situation.

If he is affected at all, it would have to be out of concern that we are missing the point he'd like us to see. The only thing he could not 'tolerate' would be other eternal beings endowed with powers like his own who lacked the maturity to handle it. That is the justification for death/hell as far as I can tell.
0 Replies
 
 

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