If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

Matthew 11:23, 16:18
Luke 10:15, 16:23
Acts 2:27, 2:31
1 Corinthians 15:55
Revelation 1:18, 6:8, 20:13, 20:14

In all those that I checked, the word was hades. I think that's what smiley said. The Hebrew word sheol was not used in the Greek manuscripts. But whether in Hebrew as sheol or in Greek as hades, the reference is to the grave. Were you both talking about the same thing but didn't realize it?

When the Septuagint was translated, the Hebrew sheol was rendered hades.

The world itself is Hell, the Afterlife is death (deliverance from Hell). Belief can only be disbelief, lack of belief in Hell, which leads to deliverance.

Another Messiah.

Will the list never end?

There is no need to believe in a Messiah. Death is an objective reality. It makes far more sense to believe in death than to believe in life or, worse, the promise of eternal life. Eternal life would be eternal suffering, because the two are synonymous.

Welcome to a2k, Adam.
You would need to provide some documentation or other support besides your ipse dixit proclamation.

Have fun here.

If I were to be uncharitable, I would suggest that you simply enumerate the many forms of suffering that are irredemable. There are countless forms of suffering, such as the knowledge of one's own extinction, that cannot be gotten rid of. Similarly, desire in its many forms seems to be unquenchable, although some sages have succeeded in stifling desiring. Buddhism has come closest to the recognition of life's true value(lessness). The number of philosophers who have highlighted the negative nature of existence are too numerous to list here. Karl Eduard von Hartmann's "Philosophy of the Unconscious" is one of the most systematic defenses of a negative view of existence.

We agree there.



Really?

You know that...how?



It makes FAR more sense not to do any "believing" at all...and I don't.

If you are suggesting however that it makes far more sense to guess death ends everything and there is nothing after death...

...you really have to come up with some evidence.

If you want to blindly guess one way or the other...why not call it a guess...although those kinds of guesses don't get much mileage here in A2K?




Neither do bromides like that.

Death is an objective reality.

"Really?
You know that...how?"

According to the best of our knowledge, all organic and inorganic systems, sooner or later, succumb to entropy. It should be stressed that "according to the best of our knowledge", i.e. the opposite could pertain, but this does not seem likely. Death, the entropy of organic systems, seems to be an unavoidable fact of life, irrespective of whether we hold this to be "good" or "bad".

It makes far more sense to believe in death than to believe in life or, worse, the promise of eternal life.

"It makes FAR more sense not to do any "believing" at all...and I don't.
If you are suggesting however that it makes far more sense to guess death ends everything and there is nothing after death...
...you really have to come up with some evidence.
If you want to blindly guess one way or the other...why not call it a guess...although those kinds of guesses don't get much mileage here in A2K?"

I fail to see the reason why informed guesses should not get much mileage. Most scientific discoveries were made partly through informed guesses. Guessing is the prerequisite of discovering, I should think. Now it is true that belief in death is still a form of belief, this is beyond dispute. However, death seems to have a reality that is objective, as all existents have a tendency towards entropy, at least if one takes the laws of thermodynamics seriously (it is not compulsory to accept the laws of physics - it is perfectly possible to reject them). What I dispute is your imputing the quality of "blindness" to the guess I have posited. It is, far from being a blind guess, one that is to a certain degree, informed, as outlined by the evident fact of entropy.

Eternal life would be eternal suffering, because the two are synonymous.

"Neither do bromides like that. "

Facts are irrespective of whether we find them agreeable or not. There are plenty of good things in life, that much is true, yet the many positive aspects cannot, at least in the view of Pessimist philosophy (von Hartmann) compensate for the aboriginal trauma of the senselessness and purposelessness of existence (Brassier).

I thought you were better, Adam, with more professionalism. You disappoint.

I'll just watch for a while.

Not long...just a while.

Ahll be beck!

So eternal life would be misery because, the older you got, the more things started to fall off and fall out, the more miserable one would get.

And eternal youth? Well, how would that play out when you sky dive off El Capitan at age 19?

Good questions, I suppose. But, in regard to the OP:
According the the referred bible, the soul does not survive death.
While unconscious, there can be no baking, broiling, frying, or boiling.

Man has what seems to be a singular attribute, that of perceiving indefinite future time. All this speculation of after life, heaven, hell, etc. has been born of our inability to wrap our minds around it. The scriptures do have a satisfying answer, BTW. It's just that you have to consider God to get hold of it.

I know. I know. That means no moral license. But He owns the ball. Play by His rules or not at all.

If I understood him correctly, he asked for instances where the word "hades" was used in the New Testament.

Yes, sir.

The word "hades" also means, literally, "the unseen place." It's in reference to "the dwelling place of the deceased, realm of the dead.

Not if I correctly understood his request.

Yes sir, but we were referring to the New Testament books of the Bible, not the Old Testament and deuterocanonical books. There was no need to translate the books of the New Testament into Koine Greek because that's the language that they were written in.

You mean having to live with a bunch of Jehova's Witnesses forever?

A case could be made either way, when comparing youth and old age. While it is true that illness is, statistically speaking, more prevalent among the aged, youth also has numerous disadvantages. For instance, youths are typically lower on the social ladder. And young men have been routinely forced into combat in the course of history. Young men are most likely to fall victim to violence, young women are the most likely to be raped. Young people have, arguably, the least say in politics. Therefore, youth has some disadvantages that would make its value far from unambigious. A young life is still life, and therefore, a form of suffering.

I think that explains it.

I was wondering why Smiley was asking for citations unless he somehow thought you meant evidence of sheol in the Greek.

I expect he will return to verify.

Did you bother to look at the preceding exchange? He was conflating "sheol" with "hades."

Well, sheol and hades are, for all purposes, the same thing.

That's a wildly inaccurate generalization.

When you're dead you're dead.
Do you have any additional information about, let's say, posthumous routing?
Stretch as far as you think necessary.

The words and their meanings under discussion do not support your assertion.