If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

@neologist,

Yes I agree. Obviously "death" is not a tangible thing that can be burned up but it is something that can be "destroyed" in that it does not exist. And to go along with that we do not expect to see a 7 headed wild beast come out of the waters but scriptural scholars and non-scholars for that matter recognize that this symbolizes world governments like Daniel spoke of...
Smile

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@neologist,

Awesome, someone who knows scriptures!

Yes the "soul that is sinning, dies" Ezekiel 18:4, 20
No one has a perfect soul therefore we all sin and therefore we die.

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@Caesar,

Quote:

It doesnt make sense. Jesus dies so that "all" of us can be saved, yet we still need a place for the un-saved people...Explain.

He also says that we need to have faith and be of clean spirit.

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@FBM,

Should we be caught up with "mainstream" after all Jesus said "many will say to me Lord, Lord, did we know prophesy in your name and do many powerful works in your name and I will say to them "get away from me, I never knew you, you workers of lawlessness" Matthew 7:21-23
"Mainstream Christianity" has supported racism, wars, etc...
Jesus also said "broad and spacious is the the road to destruction and many are on it". Matthew 7:13,14
God's true people have always been a minority not a majority.
Smile

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

. . . As the word is used, it also means that animals as well as humans have souls as some ethereal thing we possess.

Not quite. The soul is mortal.
Somebody just beat me to it:

http://able2know.org/topic/49673-112#post-5942288

Soul and life are often used interchangeably. Lose either one, you're dead.

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@GoodNews2015,

You've lucked out, GN. Most of us are open-minded, intelligent, respectful folk.

And most of us would agree that there are many false teachings in religion.
Wink

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@GoodNews2015,

GoodNews2015 wrote:

Should we be caught up with "mainstream" after all Jesus said "many will say to me Lord, Lord, did we know prophesy in your name and do many powerful works in your name and I will say to them "get away from me, I never knew you, you workers of lawlessness" Matthew 7:21-23
"Mainstream Christianity" has supported racism, wars, etc...
Jesus also said "broad and spacious is the the road to destruction and many are on it". Matthew 7:13,14
God's true people have always been a minority not a majority.

Well, that's the claim. What's missing is the evidence. Wink

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@FBM,

They are out there, just have to look for truth and those who follow it like Proverbs 2:4,5

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@FBM,

FBM wrote:

Well, that's the claim. What's missing is the evidence.

Answer this, please.
What Constitutes Evidence

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@GoodNews2015,

Well, I have been looking for a very long time and so far have found nada. It would be helpful if some believer(s) would step up with some evidence, but so far people are only repeating the claim(s) in the form of scriptural references. That's not helping anything.

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

FBM wrote:
Well, that's the claim. What's missing is the evidence.

Answer this, please.
What Constitutes Evidence

ev·i·dence
ˈevədəns/Submit
noun
1.
the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
"the study finds little evidence of overt discrimination"
synonyms: proof, confirmation, verification, substantiation, corroboration, affirmation, attestation
"they found evidence of his plotting"
LAW
information given personally, drawn from a document, or in the form of material objects, tending or used to establish facts in a legal investigation or admissible as testimony in court.
"without evidence, they can't bring a charge"
synonyms: proof, confirmation, verification, substantiation, corroboration, affirmation, attestation More
signs; indications.
plural noun: evidences
"there was no obvious evidence of a break-in"
synonyms: signs, indications, pointers, marks, traces, suggestions, hints; manifestation
"evidence of a struggle"
verb
verb: evidence; 3rd person present: evidences; past tense: evidenced; past participle: evidenced; gerund or present participle: evidencing
1.
be or show evidence of.
"that it has been populated from prehistoric times is evidenced by the remains of Neolithic buildings"
synonyms: indicate, show, reveal, display, exhibit, manifest; More

Quote:

Scientific evidence is evidence which serves to either support or counter a scientific theory or hypothesis. Such evidence is expected to be empirical evidence and in accordance with scientific method. Standards for scientific evidence vary according to the field of inquiry, but the strength of scientific evidence is generally based on the results of statistical analysis and the strength of scientific controls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_evidence

Where's the difficulty?

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/dunno_1.gif

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@FBM,

OP requires more

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@neologist,

Quote:

Standards for scientific evidence vary according to the field of inquiry

If you specify a field, I'll do my best to come up with the criteria for acceptable evidence for it.

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@FBM,

Predictive validity

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@neologist,

That's an aspect of criteria, not a field. I meant like cosmology or QM or something related to the god hypothesis.

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@FBM,

OK. But there are many prophecies in the Bible which have been fulfilled.
That includes some whose fulfillment occurred long after the canons were established. Surely, those may be evidence of something. . . .

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@neologist,

I'm willing to consder them. Would you mind listing a few of those prophecies? That were objectively confirmed?

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@FBM,

FBM wrote:

I'm willing to consder them. Would you mind listing a few of those prophecies? That were objectively confirmed?

Babylon:
There were several prophecies regarding Babylon written in the 6th to 9th centuries B.C.E. But, since prophecy and fulfillment occurred within the time of writing the canon, many object, saying the texts must have been altered. But here is an interesting statement by Isaiah

Quote:

And Babylon, the most glorious* of kingdoms,+

The beauty and the pride of the Chal·deʹans,+

Will be like Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah when God overthrew them.+

20 She will never be inhabited,

Nor will she be a place to reside in throughout all generations.+

No Arab will pitch his tent there,

And no shepherds will rest their flocks there.

21 The desert creatures will lie down there;

Their houses will be filled with eagle owls.

The ostriches will reside there,+

And wild goats* will skip about there.

22 Howling creatures will cry out in her towers,

And jackals in her luxurious palaces.

Her time is near, and her days will not be prolonged.” (Isaiah 13:19-22)

And, then, in Jeremiah 50:39

Quote:

Therefore, the desert creatures will dwell with the howling animals,

And in her the ostriches will dwell.+

She will never again be inhabited,

Nor will she be a place of residence throughout all generations.

These, I consider important because the canons were in place long before the eventual fulfillment of the prophecy. A prophecy and fulfillment roughly equivalent to saying New York would be abandoned and never rebuilt.

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@neologist,

Quote:

since prophecy and fulfillment occurred within the time of writing the canon, many object, saying the texts must have been altered.

How might this be tested?

Quote:

She will never again be inhabited,

Nor will she be a place of residence throughout all generations.

Seems that we'd have to wait for the end of time to know whether or not this one came true.

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@Caesar,

Jesus died to save you true, but that saving can only be activated if you believe and confess it. Also God has given every human being a choice to or not to believe...Hell on the other hand was created for Satan and other fallen angels however, by the power of choice some human beings would rather be in hell with Satan. For every choice on earth there is a consequence. So my dear, hell is for Satan and the humans who choose to join him there. God is Love and you know what? Love is not forceful; He can't force you to make a choice just as your parents can't force you to make the 'right decisions'...'You'll just have to bear the consequences of your choices' parents say! Romans Chapter 8...

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If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

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